Simulator Time

[Aviator_Bakeek]

This question is for the Regulation gurus out there...

I work for a company that has a Learjet 55 Level C, Part 142 approved full motion simulator. I am a private pilot SEL. I have spent three hours in the left and right seat flying the aircraft. The instructor of the sim (Lear 55 instructor) is also a CFI, CFII, MEI instructor. The instructor proposed to me that when the sim was available we could train in the sim for my instrument, commercial and multi engine ratings. I have reviewed the FAR's 61.65 (instrument) and 61.129 (commercial) regarding the amount of time I can log from a Part 142 training center. My question is, am I able to log the time without having my AMEL certificate if it is logged as dual recieved? Am I able to log the time at all? If I can log it, how would/should it be entered to prevent any difficulties in the future such as when I go on my checkride and the examiner checks out my logbook and sees a Level C Lear 55 sim time all over?

Thanks!

 

[TheOneMarine]

Far as I've ever been able to tell, the FAR states that approved sims may be used towards TT but only so much can be used towards each certificate and rating. My FAR/AIM is out in the car and I'm too lazy to look for the exact location, however, as for the multi-time it would be logged as dual recieved and no PIC may be logged. Hopefully someone can get the actual reg and correct anything I may have said incorrectly. Only thing I'm not sure of is since you don't have the AMEL, not sure how it would work then.

 

[casey]

log it the same way you would a little Frasca FTD. The only column you write in is "simulator" or "ftd". Nothing in multi engine, nothing in total time. You are limited to logging what part 61 allows unless you are training under a part 141 curriculum, regardless of how fancy the sim is.

2.5 hrs toward a multi private, 20 hours toward instrument and 50 hours toward a comm multi.

your examiner wont care what kind of sim it is (as long as it is applicable category and class), its just "sim" time to him and your logbook. He might ask you how flying a lear sim is is preparing you for flying approaches in a dutchess/seminole/whatever, but thats about it.

 

[Aviator_Bakeek]

log it the same way you would a little Frasca FTD. The only column you write in is "simulator" or "ftd". Nothing in multi engine, nothing in total time.

So it wouldnt be loggable as turbine and multiengine and sim cause that was the first thing the instructor thought of putting it under.

 

[casey]

So it wouldnt be loggable as turbine and multiengine and sim cause that was the first thing the instructor thought of putting it under.

no, its not an airplane. its a simulator.

you can put whatever you want in your logbook, but when an employer or examiner asks how much "multi-engine" or "turbine" time you have, they do not want your simulator time.

 

[Aviator_Bakeek]

That makes sense.

 

[tgrayson]

This question is for the Regulation gurus out there...!

You're mixing together two different issues here. The governing regulation about logging time is 61.51. However, whether or not you can use the time you log for a particular purpose will appear throughout the regulations.

So your Lear time is loggable as

1. Pilot Time, per Part 61.1(b)(12)
2. Instrument time, per 61.51(g)(4)
3. Multi-engine (because 61.51 doesn't specify, and you will need this info later)
4. Dual, per 61.51(h)
5. Airplane (because 61.51 doesn't specify and you will need this info later.)

 

[MDPilot]

Simulator time is never flight time. It satisfies flight time experience requirements for some FAA ratings, but it is not flight time. What you chose to log as "Total time" is up to you, but future employers will terminate your interview if you have tried to claim simulator time as flight time.

 

[taseal]

log it the same way you would a little Frasca FTD. The only column you write in is "simulator" or "ftd". Nothing in multi engine, nothing in total time. You are limited to logging what part 61 allows unless you are training under a part 141 curriculum, regardless of how fancy the sim is.

2.5 hrs toward a multi private, 20 hours toward instrument and 50 hours toward a comm multi.

your examiner wont care what kind of sim it is (as long as it is applicable category and class), its just "sim" time to him and your logbook. He might ask you how flying a lear sim is is preparing you for flying approaches in a dutchess/seminole/whatever, but thats about it.

actually I think its 30 hours for inst. and 'half' of training for 141 inst.

Simulator time is never flight time. It satisfies flight time experience requirements for some FAA ratings, but it is not flight time. What you chose to log as "Total time" is up to you, but future employers will terminate your interview if you have tried to claim simulator time as flight time.

Yup.

For me, simulator only goes in the simulator and thats it, nowhere else, I'm hoping to become an airline pilot one day, and none of them care about how much time I have in a fancy flight simulator 2004 lol

 

[Aviator_Bakeek]

OK so let me make sure I have this correct...

Say I meet all the requirements for my commercial at 200 hours airplane with 50 hours of sim time for a grand total of 250 hours. I am still legal to take my checkride because I can log 50 hours of sim time towards my commercial rating by Part 61.129(i)? And, it must be dual received because I do not hold the multiengine class certificate.

Sorry if I am coming off slow, I just want to make sure I fully understand the meaning of the regs and the interpretations of those who have graciously helped me understand.

 

[tgrayson]

OK so let me make sure I have this correct...

Say I meet all the requirements for my commercial at 200 hours airplane with 50 hours of sim time for a grand total of 250 hours. I am still legal to take my checkride because I can log 50 hours of sim time towards my commercial rating by Part 61.129(i)? And, it must be dual received because I do not hold the multiengine class certificate.

Yes. But: are you going for your ME as your initial? The 50 hours must be in the same class as the rating you're going for. (Which is why you need to log the sim time as SE or ME.)

Note: here's an except from the defunct Part 61 FAQs:

The FARs specifically permit time in a flight simulator or flight training device can be credited in lieu of the required flight time towards meeting the total aeronautical experience or recency of experience. [See § 61.57(c)(1) and (d)(1)(ii), § 61.58(e), § 61.65(e), § 61.109(i), § 61.129(i), § 61.157(i), § 61.187(c)(2), etc.] However, this is NOT flight time and CANNOT be logged as flight time. For example, an ATP applicant with 1,475 hours total time as a pilot in aircraft that includes at least 500 hours cross-country and 100 hours night, but only 50 hours instrument flight time would meet minimum aeronautical experience using 25 hours instrument training in a flight simulator or flight training device (FTD) in accordance with § 61.156(a)(3)(iii). Though the 25 hours in the sim/FTD can not logged as flight time, it may be used in lieu of flight time for the minimum aeronautical experience requirement of 1,500 hours total time. But, this is only because it is allowed under § 61.156(a)(3)(iii).

Now, the way it would be interpreted and should be logged on the FAA Form 8710-1 application is to list the time in the “Instruction Received” and “Instrument” columns and in the line for “Training Device” or “Simulator” in the appropriate boxes. When the time is computed to insure the applicant meets the appropriate aeronautical experience requirements for the airman certificate and rating sought, the time listed in the “Instruction Received” column and “Training Device” or “Simulator” boxes, as appropriate, would be accepted in lieu of the required flight time experience required to the limit allowed, as in the example above.