Simple dumb IFR question

Raymond Pang

New Member
Please help me find reference to the answer to this problem.

I want to know if I am cleared for, and established on an IFR approach, not on radar contact, and no long talking to ATC, when can I go visual? By visual, I mean course and altitude at my discrestion. If I break out 2000 ft, above minimums, great visibility and all, do I have to continue on course above minimums, all the way to the VDP?

I am looking for some reg or reference to the answer. I have been looking through everything and any answers would be appreciated. Thanks
 
According to 91.175, you could descend below the published minimums as soon as you had one of the following in sight
(ii) The threshold.

(iii) The threshold markings.

(iv) The threshold lights.

(v) The runway end identifier lights.

(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.

(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.

(viii) The touchdown zone lights.

(ix) The runway or runway markings.

(x) The runway lights.

As for the VDP, the AIM recommends (in section 5-4) that "The pilot should not descend below the MDA prior to reaching the VDP and acquiring the necessary visual reference.", but keep in mind that isn't regulatory. If you're flying the approach in day VFR conditions, you should be able to see any obstacles sticking into the 34:1 glideslope (which do exist at some places, despite what the FAA says), but at night or at an unfamiliar airport, the safe option would be to stick to the MDA until reaching the VDP.
 
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No question is ever dumb. And that just happens to be a good question to ask. A lot of instrument-rated pilots probably have never even heard of a VDP before.
 
Remember. Without a charted VDP there is still no "obstacle" protection below the MDA.

There may not be even with a charted one I can't recall.
 
@Raymond Pang, NOT a dumb question at all. I'm only assuming from your post that you were on an IFR flight plan, been cleared for the approach by the controlling agency, and had been switched to advisory frequency. After ALL of this, you "break out" and see the airport/runway.
If this is the scenario, then @ndakcfi is dead on (91.175). Once you get any of the listed in sight (and can maintain visual contact) you can adjust as desired.

Good practice to get into by not descending below MDA prior to VDP but not regulatory (as mentioned).

Keep the questions coming........
 
Remember. Without a charted VDP there is still no "obstacle" protection below the MDA.

There may not be even with a charted one I can't recall.

The area beyond the VDP is supposed to be clear of obstacles on a 34:1 slope, but as a Lear 45 pilot found out a few years ago when he clipped a tree sticking into the "protected" airspace, the FAA don't always do a great job of verifying that still applies.
 
The area beyond the VDP is supposed to be clear of obstacles on a 34:1 slope, but as a Lear 45 pilot found out a few years ago when he clipped a tree sticking into the "protected" airspace, the FAA don't always do a great job of verifying that still applies.
That's what I thought. Did the approach that Lear shot have a charted VDP?
 
Yep. The crew was shooting a GPS approach, and waited to go below the MDA until they'd passed the VDP, but collided with the top of a tree (it was at night, so they couldn't see it) when they did so. It was discovered that the FAA had known about trees penetrating the approach airspace for nine years (during which time they'd grown several feet per year), but hadn't done anything about it until someone clipped them.
 
Yep. The crew was shooting a GPS approach, and waited to go below the MDA until they'd passed the VDP, but collided with the top of a tree (it was at night, so they couldn't see it) when they did so. It was discovered that the FAA had known about trees penetrating the approach airspace for nine years (during which time they'd grown several feet per year), but hadn't done anything about it until someone clipped them.
Not only that, but they violated the pilot first to.
 
Hey guys...quick correction. A published VDP indicates the 20:1is clear. The publication of a stipple (light shaded cyclone looking thing) indicates the 34:1 is clear.
 
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