Simlator Leaseback

Cessna414JJB

Cessna414JJB

Unknown Member
I am looking to purchase a Elite PC-ATD or FTD for possible leaseback to a flight school. Any ideas or experiences you could share?

Sim would be used primarily for Instrument Initial Training, IPC's and currency training offered.

Thanks for any insights you may have, I hope this is "aviation related" enough for the General Section.
 
I would skid the PCATD and look to the RC-1, if you have the cash, it would generate a lot more cash flow. I looked into this but it is hard to get the flight schools to jump on board.
 
Should be a relatively low-risk way to make money. The owner of the school will probably want 20% off the top, plus maybe a little more for electricity costs. They cost around 40-60k, so you are looking at a 500-600 a month payment. You could probably get 50/hr. for it, so $40 for you, $10 for the flight school owner. At this rate, you would only need 15 hours a month to break even. We have a Garmin 430 in ours, and it made it a lot more relevant for flight training, so we do a lot of sim.
 
mojo6911 said:
Should be a relatively low-risk way to make money. The owner of the school will probably want 20% off the top, plus maybe a little more for electricity costs. They cost around 40-60k, so you are looking at a 500-600 a month payment. You could probably get 50/hr. for it, so $40 for you, $10 for the flight school owner. At this rate, you would only need 15 hours a month to break even. We have a Garmin 430 in ours, and it made it a lot more relevant for flight training, so we do a lot of sim.
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Mojo:
How do you arrive at a $500-600 payment with a purchase of a $40-60K tool? Financed over 60 months you are looking at roughly $24/per $1.000 financed... You'd have to finance and amortize over 20 years...
 
I would say at a min you need a 430/530, W would be nice, I think a G1000 could make bank. The monthly payment is what stopped my dreams...
 
Cessna414JJB said:
I am looking to purchase a Elite PC-ATD or FTD for possible leaseback to a flight school. Any ideas or experiences you could share?

Sim would be used primarily for Instrument Initial Training, IPC's and currency training offered.

Thanks for any insights you may have, I hope this is "aviation related" enough for the General Section.
Click to expand...

I lease back a RC-1 AATD. It is a great piece of machinery. It IS pricey though (especially if you add on an actual 430 or 530).

Michael
 
bap327 said:
I would say at a min you need a 430/530, W would be nice, I think a G1000 could make bank. The monthly payment is what stopped my dreams...
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Well, I used to have my fingers on a Frasca G1000 and I have flown G530/430 Sims in the past. Really cool stuff - but you gotta be able to crack a smile after the week is over and break at least even. I don't mind funding it during down times - but it should not be a money pit over long term.
 
I agree, but I wouldn't want to have a "basic" sim and have to worry about the monthly nut. If you could do specialized training ala 450/530 G1000 type stuff you could stuff the schedule while also providing Instrument training.
 
Michael, what did the RC-1 run, if you don't mind me asking. I am guessing 50k? I work at a sim company that has a couple of 500 types and they were over 100k.
 
bap327 said:
Michael, what did the RC-1 run, if you don't mind me asking. I am guessing 50k? I work at a sim company that has a couple of 500 types and they were over 100k.
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It was roughly that. They payment per month is $1050.00. So at $50/hour, that is 21 hours to break even. Not too tough to do that, especially since the RC-1 allows for up to 50 hours to be logged towards the Commercial certificate.
 
bap327 said:
I agree, but I wouldn't want to have a "basic" sim and have to worry about the monthly nut. If you could do specialized training ala 450/530 G1000 type stuff you could stuff the schedule while also providing Instrument training.
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Yup - makes sense! From what I understand there is a bit of a interpretation issue with using PC-ATD's for currency & testing. As long as they comply with some certain AC they are good to go, but I surely (and don't call me Shirley!) don't want to shoot myself in the foot with limiting opportunities by "under purchasing"...

Lots of thinking before this pig goes flying...
 
Find your market and grab it by the neck! Let me know if I can help out with any info.
I am not a business owner but I play one on t.v.
 
Michael95U said:
It was roughly that. They payment per month is $1050.00. So at $50/hour, that is 21 hours to break even. Not too tough to do that, especially since the RC-1 allows for up to 50 hours to be logged towards the Commercial certificate.
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That is a good hourly rate! I think I need to look at trying to bump up our prices.
 
If you're just looking to subsidize the costs of purchasing it (i.e. get your money back) I would think that a basic PCATD would be a good buy. You can rent it out a lot cheaper and there's less to worry about breaking.
 
Cessna414JJB said:
Mojo:
How do you arrive at a $500-600 payment with a purchase of a $40-60K tool? Financed over 60 months you are looking at roughly $24/per $1.000 financed... You'd have to finance and amortize over 20 years...
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$60,000 over 15 years at 7%. I ran the numbers like an airplane. If you want to do it in 4 years, you are looking at $1500/month.
 
mojo6911 said:
$60,000 over 15 years at 7%. I ran the numbers like an airplane. If you want to do it in 4 years, you are looking at $1500/month.
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Okay - understood, makes sense.
From what I can see it will be a small pig flying for starters. I can always add or aim higher down the road. 50-60K sounds like a bit over the top. Thanks for the insights!
 
Cessna414JJB, have you taken a look at this company? Redbird Flight Simulations makes a full motion sim that can be converted to just about any training aircraft (172, seminole, they are working on a cirrus). Our company just bought one; it's in the $60K range and our students/instructors are already flying the "wheels" off of it. It even runs off of a regular 120 volt outlet. May or may not be your best option but it's worth a look.
 
AviatorGator said:
Cessna414JJB, have you taken a look at this company? Redbird Flight Simulations makes a full motion sim that can be converted to just about any training aircraft (172, seminole, they are working on a cirrus). Our company just bought one; it's in the $60K range and our students/instructors are already flying the "wheels" off of it. It even runs off of a regular 120 volt outlet. May or may not be your best option but it's worth a look.
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Never heard of those before. Really great looking machines!
 
Thanks again. I guess I won't be looking into a $60K machine. Wanna send the small pig flying first - see how it works, without giving the impression to be competing with a sim center. I neither like the risk, nor the financial exposure, it is really aimed at providing some basics first, let it carry itsef and add on from there. Grow slow and steady, everything else would make the falling harder than it needs to be.
 
bap327 said:
Find your market and grab it by the neck! Let me know if I can help out with any info.
I am not a business owner but I play one on t.v.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about doing this as well, since there's no simply within driving distance from here. But, I find the inability to do a complete IPC with one due to the circling approach requirement.
Then I found a place that claims to be able to do an IPC in an AATD and meet the circling requirement by using a "timing technique." I'm not familiar with that technique.... can anyone enlighten me?
 
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