Sideslip or De-crab in the flare

What technique do you use for landing in a crosswind?

  • Sideslip

    Votes: 12 16.0%

  • De-crab in the flare

    Votes: 63 84.0%

  • Slam it on while still crabbed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    75
Lucky8888 said:
Here's how it's done by the pros. BTW, the landing gear can be offset by +/- 20 degrees. During approach the offset is calculated and dialed-in.

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That had to be the strangest sensation the first time you landed like that.
 
xargos said:
Can you still "feel" the mains touch down in a large jet? Or how else do you figure out the upwind main touchdown?
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Okay, that is not my quote. That is an excerpt from the Boeing Flight Crew Training Manual.

That said, generally you can feel the mains touchdown easily enough.


TP
 
ppragman said:
You wouldn't even try a little rudder at the last second?
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No. Too much rudder authority with gear down, and in the 117 you'll induce an undesirable roll. Just prior to touchdown isn't the time to be messing with a stabilized approach in these planes, especially at around 180 knots +/- in that jet.
 
MikeD said:
No. Too much rudder authority with gear down, and in the 117 you'll induce an undesirable roll. Just prior to touchdown isn't the time to be messing with a stabilized approach in these planes, especially at around 180 knots +/- in that jet.
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Wow. How many sets of tires did you go through on a sortie? That sounds kind of cool.
 
ppragman said:
Wow. How many sets of tires did you go through on a sortie? That sounds kind of cool.
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They lasted pretty long, as severe crosswind landings weren't common. The homedrome had three runways, 4-22, 16-34, and 7-25, so most wind combos for the area were taken care of. But of course there were those times.

I remember doing a TACAN approach at ROW, circling to a low approach, less than an hour after takeoff. Just prior to commencing, and having computed the speeds for the approach, the speed for circling Cat E around to the runway, at the current aircraft weight so soon after takeoff, came to 215. And even that was tough to keep within the Cat E circling area.
 
MikeD said:
They lasted pretty long, as severe crosswind landings weren't common. The homedrome had three runways, 4-22, 16-34, and 7-25, so most wind combos for the area were taken care of. But of course there were those times.

I remember doing a TACAN approach at ROW, circling to a low approach, less than an hour after takeoff. Just prior to commencing, and having computed the speeds for the approach, the speed for circling Cat E around to the runway, at the current aircraft weight so soon after takeoff, came to 215. And even that was tough to keep within the Cat E circling area.
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Awesome. Yeah, I wonder if there any civilian airplanes out there that book at those speeds.
 
ppragman said:
Awesome. Yeah, I wonder if there any civilian airplanes out there that book at those speeds.
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There are all kinds of restrictions with that bird, especially as it relates to crosswinds and drag chute use, then to no-chute landings if outside those constraints. The latter were hell on the brakes at the speeds we were landing at, as you had to immediately get the nose down after touchdown, then get on the binders with progressive pressure. If antiskid was inop for some reason on a no-chute landing, you were going to have serious troubles.
 
I used to set a side-slip at about 200 feet. Old habit from my UND days to make sure I could actually straighten it out and remain stable.

I de-crab at about 10 feet now and prefer that. It works well in lightweight turbo-trash too. The Metro ailerons are stupid and the Brasilia yoke is stupid. So not having to use them, or as much of them, is a win for me! :)
 
MikeD said:
They lasted pretty long, as severe crosswind landings weren't common. The homedrome had three runways, 4-22, 16-34, and 7-25, so most wind combos for the area were taken care of. But of course there were those times.

I remember doing a TACAN approach at ROW, circling to a low approach, less than an hour after takeoff. Just prior to commencing, and having computed the speeds for the approach, the speed for circling Cat E around to the runway, at the current aircraft weight so soon after takeoff, came to 215. And even that was tough to keep within the Cat E circling area.
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I can't even imagine what that would look like!
 
In case someone is a more "graphic" type and needs illustrations to better understand the advantages of the "de-crab in the flare" method, Airbus published a nice briefing to crosswind landings: http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/med...items/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-LAND-SEQ05.pdf

And while some might argue, the A320 was designed only for "light headwinds", I can assure it lands fine in crosswinds, too. But do not use the sideslip method, that will not work well. Especially, when winds pick up a little. I was trained - and have used - the de-crab method exclusively, on all jets that I've flown. Never had any issues with crosswinds, just remember there are limitations to all aircraft and the Airbus might be a little bit more restrictive, because of its design characteristics, than maybe similar Boeing types?

Still, some very experienced pilots believe, they have to align the aircraft's nose with centerline before starting the flare. But you have to initiate the flare and flare with the crab angle (the sight looks wrong with stronger winds, until you get used to the picture) and de-crab just a moment before touchdown, everything with wings level. Getting a feel for the correct altitude and moment to de-crab, takes time and when you think you "got it", can catch you quite fast if you are switching back and forth between different sized aircraft. There's already quite a difference between the A319 and A321, when it comes to crosswind handling.
 
image.14095117.0006-fc-550x550-black.u1.jpg
 
UAL747400 said:
I used to set a side-slip at about 200 feet. Old habit from my UND days to make sure I could actually straighten it out and remain stable.
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-groaning sound-

I de-crab at about 10 feet now and prefer that. It works well in lightweight turbo-trash too. The Metro ailerons are stupid and the Brasilia yoke is stupid. So not having to use them, or as much of them, is a win for me! :)
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Well, to be fair, you still use them, but yeah.
 
Just a note since I can't "like" an entire thread. As a lowly single-engine piston pilot, I am getting a lot out of reading the iron view of this question.
 
A coworker that's also a C17 driver told me they are required to be de-crabbed with the slip established by 500' AGL. I was surprised by that. In the flare, I align the longitudinal axis of the airplane with the centerline using rudder and counteract any drift with aileron, in every airplane I've flown.
 
The Beatchjet is an interesting airplane in a strong crosswind. Its lack of ailerons make it necessary to crab pretty much all the way to the ground lest ye shall develop a sporty sinkrate. 6 degrees of roll is the max before dragging a wingtip so trying to use the one wing low technique is only for light crosswinds. I've found differential thrust is very useful for this aircraft!

Bp244
 
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