Side stick vs conventional Yoke
- Thread starter Andy5466
- Start date
Very nice. And very inspiring to hear when people say they love what they do hope to say the same.Having flown both, the 737 was probably the plane I've flown that I like the least. What an unbelievable piece of crap that airplane is from a pilot's perspective.
I LOVE the A320/319. The sidestick is great fun and works fantastic. It is truly a joy to handfly. Click off the autopilot, autothrust, and flight directors and have at it! There is plenty of feel to the airplane as you feel everything you're doing! As far as favorite planes I've flown, it's a tie between those and the 757 or 767ER.
Also on the Airbus, most of my approaches are flown with the autothrust off. I absolutely love the flying I do.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
I don't have any Boeing time......but I'm a big fan of the Airbus cockpit configuration. The sidestick/ tray table combination is outstanding and the cockpit is very roomy. Also, the plane is a breeze to fly....once you wrap your head around the automation like Cav mentioned. There are a dozen different ways to do the same thing.....it really is just a question on how you want to make it happen.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
I'll be the first to admit that I was much less comfortable in the bus coming out of training than I was on either the DC9 or the 757/767. But you are right, once you "get it" the airplane is easy and fun to fly. They could have increased the flap extension speeds a bit to help you out a bit though! Waiting on the speed for flaps 1 is like waiting on my wife to get ready for dinner out.
seagull
Well-Known Member
Side stick would be awesome, so long as it actually moves the controls around and doesn't give the flight computer suggestions.
I guess once flying becomes a job, it doesn't matter.
And you think the conventional yoke in a Boeing actually moves the controls around?
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Thought in the older stuff like the DC-9s and classic 737s it pushed the fluid around the hydraulic lines to move the control surfaces, does it not?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
The DC-9 type aircraft have cables direct controlling servo tabs, which fly the control into position.
In most non FBW aircraft, you're controlling cables that connect to hydraulic actuators.
In most non FBW aircraft, you're controlling cables that connect to hydraulic actuators.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Question for you cav.
I've only been on the CRJ yoke and now the A320 sidestick, so no Boeing experience for me. I do prefer the sidestick over the yoke, but that's just in my limited experience of two jet types.
Here's my question cav. I've jumpseated numerous times in 75/76 and 737-8s all on Delta. Why is it in descents I keep seeing guys reach to the throttles and pull them back, while they were moving back. To me it seemed the throttles were moving back but the guy reached up and pulled them. I think Throttle Hold was boxed on their FMA, I could be wrong, I have no idea what that is anyway. But to me, it seems that somewhere in Boeing autopilot programming, there doesn't seem to be enough to get the airplane to do what you want it to do, without having to jump the throttles yourself? For example, in the Bus, I know a managed descent will get me 1,000 fpm until it intercepts the profile, and then it will follow it down. If I want a full idle power descent, I'll pull open descent and down it'll come. If we're doing 1,000fpm in a managed descent and I want more/less, I can pull vertical speed and autothrust will go into speed and I can still go down at what rate I want. All this is done without touching the thrust levers. Which leads to my question, why can't Boeing guys do this via autopilot panel manipulation? Is something missing that causes guys to have to adjust autothrottles?
I've only been on the CRJ yoke and now the A320 sidestick, so no Boeing experience for me. I do prefer the sidestick over the yoke, but that's just in my limited experience of two jet types.
Here's my question cav. I've jumpseated numerous times in 75/76 and 737-8s all on Delta. Why is it in descents I keep seeing guys reach to the throttles and pull them back, while they were moving back. To me it seemed the throttles were moving back but the guy reached up and pulled them. I think Throttle Hold was boxed on their FMA, I could be wrong, I have no idea what that is anyway. But to me, it seems that somewhere in Boeing autopilot programming, there doesn't seem to be enough to get the airplane to do what you want it to do, without having to jump the throttles yourself? For example, in the Bus, I know a managed descent will get me 1,000 fpm until it intercepts the profile, and then it will follow it down. If I want a full idle power descent, I'll pull open descent and down it'll come. If we're doing 1,000fpm in a managed descent and I want more/less, I can pull vertical speed and autothrust will go into speed and I can still go down at what rate I want. All this is done without touching the thrust levers. Which leads to my question, why can't Boeing guys do this via autopilot panel manipulation? Is something missing that causes guys to have to adjust autothrottles?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
I'm not Cav, but I have flown all the major manufacturers except for Embraer.
The descend now function on the 75/76 takes you into what is similar to the managed descent mode to start down before the down arrow. However, the throttles come back a bit to approximate around 1500 fpm and park in a "Throttle Hold" function which is the same as "CLMP" on McBoeing planes. The motor is off and you're free to adjust the throttles to your liking. The airplane is flying speed on pitch, not a constant vertical speed.
The 738 descend now functions closer to the airbus where it flies a 1000 fpm descent unless you're in speed intervention (open speed window) where it will go directly to idle. Once on the path, the throttles go to idle and then enter throttle hold.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
The CRJ and ERJ are the same hydraulic through artificial feel.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
Cherokee_Cruiser , PeanuckleCRJ covered Boeimg VNAV well so I won't add much. I think Boeing auto throttle management is great because it gives the pilot options without having to change the descent mode. Want less or more descent rate while in VNAV/THROTTLE hold? Just move the throttles to adjust. The big advantage to the system to me over Airbus VNAV is that you never have to leave VNAV when you want to operate outside the preprogrammed descent rates. Options in VNAV in other words no need to switch to VS because you can accomplish the same thing in throttle hold.. No need to initiate descent at TOD unless you want to do so prior with Descend Now. The fact that the Airbus wouldn't start down on it's own in my opinion opens you up to distraction. Not a huge deal but it never made much sense to me. VS is just like Airbus and FLCH is the same as open descent. I would love to have FPA back but I think the 737 has it. Correct PeanuckleCRJ ?
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
It seems at XJT guys are hesitant to leave FLCH and VS while here guys don't want to leave VNAV. the reasons for both are fairly obvious. The Boeing doesn't seem to oscillate as bad as the EMB but every once in awhile you get an airplane that is worse than others. It tends to oscillate the speed more than the pitch which goes largely unnoticed by anyone other than the pilot. Like the Embraer the throttles if moved abruptly will make it worse than it needs to be. There are plenty of people on here with more Boeing experience than I have so perhaps one of them will post their technique.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
FLCH and VNAV SPD work good, last long time in the 757/767. Not really any need for V/S.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
You didn't need boosted ailerons or anything either, right?
VS, PIT, and IAS (in smooth air without thrust lever movements, anyway) worked in the 145; it's very rare to have a vertical mode other than pitch engaged on the Brasilia but some guys will use IAS or VS in smooth air. This autopilot gets a little too excited sometimes and will make the toads float or crush 'em in their seats in turbulence in VS/IAS.
Shiny, a real autopilot with real FLCH and VNAV.
I would use IAS/MACH only at a fixed thrust setting—the TLs became binary controls: THRUST SET (climbing) and IDLE (descending). There was really no in acceptable in between and the thing would, as described, go "woo!" Judicious use of the TCS can lessen this habit. But then you actually have to, like, touch the yoke.
Mechanical elevators, or "every single time the gust lock is moved to the full forward, unlocked position, the elevator movement must be checked. (...) Ten effin' seconds."