SIDA and release checking at your airport....

89-LX

89-LX

Well-Known Member
I'm looking to get some insight from other airports, operations, FOM, etc from other people on this issue.

At my airport of base, I have a SIDA and access to the areas that I am needed at. When I arrive at a gate, 9 out of 10 times the gate agent doesn't have a release ready or printed. They are claiming its a TSA violation to let me down the jetbridge until my ID is verified against the release. According to the airport authority, who issues all SIDA badges and training, they are telling me that there is no such rule or regulation if you have a SIDA to access the aircraft. I have dug through part of the 49 CFR, and while I found information on SIDA, I couldn't find any rules or regulations stating that we as crew members are not allowed to an aircraft until our names have been verified.

Has anyone else had this issue at other places? Any FOM's state that you're ID must be verified to the release as a working crew member of a flight?
 
Every day, every flight at Delta, unless it's a thru flight. It is a TSA part 121 requirement. Has nothing to do with the airport authority.
 
Even with SIDA access? I can understand checking ID's, but they are refusing to let anyone down until they have a release, even when they cannot get the release. I cannot find the TSA regulation anywhere that says you have to have it verified that you are the crew member on the release EVEN if you have access.

Btw, I even have this happen on through flights. I come up on the jetbridge, go out to get the release. No release printed, they say I am not allowed to go down until they verify my ID. The word I got from security and TSA was if you had a SIDA, you can swipe and go down. No verification needed. I am trying to find actual verbiage of said regulation. Cause from my training per the TSA, I am given access to areas but I need to swipe and input my numbers to access the said areas. No one verifies the cleaners that go on the plane, but the flight crew has to be verified by someone who has less access?
 
Your identity must be verified in some way. Easiest way is to look at the release, but it can be done in another fashion.

SIDA access does not grant you airplane access.
 
BlueMoon said:
Your identity must be verified in some way. Easiest way is to look at the release, but it can be done in another fashion.

SIDA access does not grant you airplane access.
Click to expand...

Our FOM somewhat contradicts this thought. It says crew members ID must be verified, but it just says that the identification just has to be verified and nothing else. It then goes on to say NON-working crew members must swipe their SIDA badge to obtain access. Its open to interpretation, but verifying an ID is just verifying that we are the person using the ID, not verifying it to a release or contacting operations. It is very open, but gate agents are saying its their supervisors, then TSA, then airline policy. TSA is saying there is no policy regarding that if you have a SIDA. No one is giving a straight answer to a regulation per the TSA for this.

Btw, verifying my identity is looking at me, my crew ID, and my SIDA. That will verify my identity for our FOM.
 
Cptnchia said:
Every day, every flight at Delta, unless it's a thru flight. It is a TSA part 121 requirement. Has nothing to do with the airport authority.
Click to expand...

Hahaha...

This in your guys' FOM (or whatever you call it there - directive for flight ops department)?

If I have a SIDA, I'm going to my airplane. Call the TSA on me if they wish, and every other XJT (ASA) pilot will say the same.

I'm not getting onto the wrong airplane, and if by the time I realize it's a different tail number than what is on my pairing - I'm calling to find out if a swap occurred. In the end, I'll be only where I need to be for work...no where else.

Nothing pisses me off more though when we are sitting in MEM for 2 hours, get off of OUR airplane - grab some food - then have to wait to get back onto OUR airplane because our release isn't available until one hour prior to departure. Heaven forbid we show them our pairing or our electronic crew list on our phones.

PinnCorp or Delta mainline agents...terrified of the TSA.

Another time common sense is missing and irrational fear is growing.
 
surreal1221 said:
Hahaha...

This in your guys' FOM (or whatever you call it there - directive for flight ops department)?

If I have a SIDA, I'm going to my airplane. Call the TSA on me if they wish, and every other XJT (ASA) pilot will say the same.

I'm not getting onto the wrong airplane, and if by the time I realize it's a different tail number than what is on my pairing - I'm calling to find out if a swap occurred. In the end, I'll be only where I need to be for work...no where else.

Nothing pisses me off more though when we are sitting in MEM for 2 hours, get off of OUR airplane - grab some food - then have to wait to get back onto OUR airplane because our release isn't available until one hour prior to departure. Heaven forbid we show them our pairing or our electronic crew list on our phones.

PinnCorp or Delta mainline agents...terrified of the TSA.

Another time common sense is missing and irrational fear is growing.
Click to expand...

I think there were some Pinnacle gate agents that got in trouble for not verifying IDs before letting the crew down to the airplane. Plus there has been at least one case of the crew being let down to the wrong airplane before. I'm quite sure if it was your butt on the line, you would verify IDs against the release/crew list too. I know I would.
 
surreal1221 said:
Hahaha...

This in your guys' FOM (or whatever you call it there - directive for flight ops department)?

If I have a SIDA, I'm going to my airplane. Call the TSA on me if they wish, and every other XJT (ASA) pilot will say the same.

I'm not getting onto the wrong airplane, and if by the time I realize it's a different tail number than what is on my pairing - I'm calling to find out if a swap occurred. In the end, I'll be only where I need to be for work...no where else.

Nothing pisses me off more though when we are sitting in MEM for 2 hours, get off of OUR airplane - grab some food - then have to wait to get back onto OUR airplane because our release isn't available until one hour prior to departure. Heaven forbid we show them our pairing or our electronic crew list on our phones.

PinnCorp or Delta mainline agents...terrified of the TSA.

Another time common sense is missing and irrational fear is growing.
Click to expand...


Exactly. Are you ATL, DTW or IAD based? Our FOM just states that our ID must be verified. Doesn't say verified on a release. Look at my ID, verify its me, thats verifying the ID.

ctab5060X said:
I think there were some Pinnacle gate agents that got in trouble for not verifying IDs before letting the crew down to the airplane. Plus there has been at least one case of the crew being let down to the wrong airplane before. I'm quite sure if it was your butt on the line, you would verify IDs against the release/crew list too. I know I would.
Click to expand...

Whats the point of SIDA training anyways then? For parking lot access and thats it? I can have the employee bus take me and drop me off outside, and then walk up the stairs to the plane, but yet I can't walk down a jetbridge? Does anyone verify the cleaners that go on board?

The problem comes in that with my SIDA training, that is controlled by the airport authority that is authorized by the TSA, states that I must swipe my ID to enter a door. No where once does it say that I cannot access a door unless a gate agent verifies. If this is the case, then if I have to be verified by a gate agent, I refuse to swipe to go anywhere as it is now their responsibility of letting me down. But when gate agents are saying that its a TSA regulation because their supervisors said so, but yet no one can show me a regulation pertaining to this that is contradictory to my SIDA training, it crosses a fine line as they are interpreting the rules and regulations in a wrong manner to what they feel they are which are wrong.
 
89-LX said:
Whats the point of SIDA training anyways then? For parking lot access and thats it? I can have the employee bus take me and drop me off outside, and then walk up the stairs to the plane, but yet I can't walk down a jetbridge? Does anyone verify the cleaners that go on board?

The problem comes in that with my SIDA training, that is controlled by the airport authority that is authorized by the TSA, states that I must swipe my ID to enter a door. No where once does it say that I cannot access a door unless a gate agent verifies. If this is the case, then if I have to be verified by a gate agent, I refuse to swipe to go anywhere as it is now their responsibility of letting me down. But when gate agents are saying that its a TSA regulation because their supervisors said so, but yet no one can show me a regulation pertaining to this that is contradictory to my SIDA training, it crosses a fine line as they are interpreting the rules and regulations in a wrong manner to what they feel they are which are wrong.
Click to expand...

Think about what SIDA stands for and you answer your own questions.

SIDA badges allow access to restricted portions of the airport NOT your assigned aircraft. That is why your company ID must be verified before allowing access to the aircraft. You swipe your SIDA at the jet bridge door only because that door allows access to a restricted area. What do you do in outstations or hubs where you have no SIDA access?

As far as ID verification. All I have seen is that it is a TSA requirement for a working crew member to be verifed before entering the assigned aircraft. In your example of being dropped off and boarding by the stairs from the ramp... seems you are in violation of a TSA requirement. Remember... those are personal fines... not a corporate fines.

If you have doubts, read your FOM or call your Security Committee chariman (if you have one). Issues with stuff like this can easily be resolved with a few phone calls or questions asked to the proper individuals.
 
This is an airport issue. In Chicago, you're required to punch in your personal code to the jetway (unless it's F7, or whatever gate it is on the Fox terminal, that requires the gate agents to swipe their card to let you down). Even if the gate agent is there, you punch in your code. I've had gate agents REFUSE to let me down to the airplane, instead telling me to punch in my code and let myself down.

Newark? You get checked on the release.

When we were at Amflight, we had SIDA badges for entry into the hangar that we operated out of, and you could get to any of the aircraft from there.

There's no doubt in my mind that this is an airport issue.
 
ctab5060X said:
SIDA badges allow access to restricted portions of the airport NOT your assigned aircraft. That is why your company ID must be verified before allowing access to the aircraft. You swipe your SIDA at the jet bridge door only because that door allows access to a restricted area. What do you do in outstations or hubs where you have no SIDA access?
Click to expand...

Once again, I will go back to cleaners, rampers, or anyone else who walks right into my plane. Are they verified? Nope. Its just random people sent out. In outstations, we do not have a SIDA so we are required to be verified per our FOM. For locations that we have a SIDA, it states that we just swipe and go.

ctab5060X said:
As far as ID verification. All I have seen is that it is a TSA requirement for a working crew member to be verifed before entering the assigned aircraft. In your example of being dropped off and boarding by the stairs from the ramp... seems you are in violation of a TSA requirement. Remember... those are personal fines... not a corporate fines.
Click to expand...

Can you show me a TSA regulation for this? I've dug though part 49 of the CFR and found nothing. Using the word verify does not imply verify to a release, it just is to verify my identity that I have with my ID badge. Once again, crossing a fine line by adding verbiage or twisting the context of what the word verify means.

ctab5060X said:
If you have doubts, read your FOM or call your Security Committee chariman (if you have one). Issues with stuff like this can easily be resolved with a few phone calls or questions asked to the proper individuals.
Click to expand...

FOM says just to have ID verified, nothing about a release at all. It then goes on to specifically state that even as non working crew members, we are allowed as long as we have a SIDA. So per what my FOM tells me, it differs from what gate agents are spewing without any regulation to prove my wrong.
 
89-LX said:
Once again, I will go back to cleaners, rampers, or anyone else who walks right into my plane. Are they verified? Nope. Its just random people sent out. In outstations, we do not have a SIDA so we are required to be verified per our FOM. For locations that we have a SIDA, it states that we just swipe and go.
Click to expand...

So, when a ramper or cleaner walks onto the aircraft and you are there, you don't challenge them if you don't see proper identfication? That is a form of verification and is required within the SIDA. Also, it is not like they are not verified. They must either clear a TSA security checkpoint with their SIDA/company ID, or enter the SIDA via a controlled, SIDA badge only access point.

89-LX said:
Can you show me a TSA regulation for this? I've dug though part 49 of the CFR and found nothing. Using the word verify does not imply verify to a release, it just is to verify my identity that I have with my ID badge. Once again, crossing a fine line by adding verbiage or twisting the context of what the word verify means.
Click to expand...

I can not point you directly to a regulation for this, for all I know, it could simply be policy and procedure for the TSA to require verification of IDs before allowing working crew member access to the aircraft. However, since I do have recurrent coming up sooner rather than later, I will file this away as a question to ask the people who should know. Well all should do this with any security related questions.

As far as verifying per release/crew list, I think that might be airline specific. I know mine requires a crew list verification against your ID before you are allowed access to the airplane. I've delayed more than one flight as a reserve pilot on the verification issue.

89-LX said:
FOM says just to have ID verified, nothing about a release at all. It then goes on to specifically state that even as non working crew members, we are allowed as long as we have a SIDA. So per what my FOM tells me, it differs from what gate agents are spewing without any regulation to prove my wrong.
Click to expand...

If you are having a problem with what the gate agents are 'spewing', then I highly suggest that you find someone who knows more about the situation and start asking some questions. It could be airport/company specific and your manuals don't match their policy and procedure. I can think of several instances within my own airline where that is a problem. Until you have a clear answer, treat it like a 91 vs 121 vs FOM/CFM problem and go with the most restrictive regulation/policy.

Also remember that SIDA badges are airport specific and one airport might require verificaiton while another might not.
 
ctab5060X said:
So, when a ramper or cleaner walks onto the aircraft and you are there, you don't challenge them if you don't see proper identfication? That is a form of verification and is required within the SIDA. Also, it is not like they are not verified. They must either clear a TSA security checkpoint with their SIDA/company ID, or enter the SIDA via a controlled, SIDA badge only access point.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I should have worded that better. No one will verify that a cleaners name appears anywhere when they go to an aircraft to clean it, but yet the crew outside has to be on a crew list that the gate agent needs to see first even if I have a SIDA. I've already cleared a SIDA at my local airport for parking through the SIDA badge area but yet the gate agent feels to want the power to stop me from going to my airplane.


ctab5060X said:
I can not point you directly to a regulation for this, for all I know, it could simply be policy and procedure for the TSA to require verification of IDs before allowing working crew member access to the aircraft. However, since I do have recurrent coming up sooner rather than later, I will file this away as a question to ask the people who should know. Well all should do this with any security related questions.
Click to expand...

I just did recurrent 2 weeks ago and I did ask. The official response: No regulation exists that they know of for a gate agent to verify my SIDA badge before going to the aircraft. I have a SIDA, I can swipe and go.


ctab5060X said:
As far as verifying per release/crew list, I think that might be airline specific. I know mine requires a crew list verification against your ID before you are allowed access to the airplane. I've delayed more than one flight as a reserve pilot on the verification issue.
Click to expand...

Our airline has no specific policy. What airline are you at if you don't mind me asking. You can PM me also.
 
Anyone know why USAirways puts all the seats up and pisses off all the morning crews and Delta could care less?

Usually they let us down and check it later (you know...the sensable thing to do). We can always call scheduling and have them do a crew verification too.

Have I mentioned the TSA is a bunch of BS?
 
89-LX said:
I'm sorry, I should have worded that better. No one will verify that a cleaners name appears anywhere when they go to an aircraft to clean it, but yet the crew outside has to be on a crew list that the gate agent needs to see first even if I have a SIDA. I've already cleared a SIDA at my local airport for parking through the SIDA badge area but yet the gate agent feels to want the power to stop me from going to my airplane.
Click to expand...

Not sure about what airport you are based out of, but at my base airport, a SIDA badge/parking badge gets you into the employee lot, but it is not a part of the SIDA. Just because you clear a SIDA swipe point and enter your code, doesn't mean you are inside the SIDA.

Just to clarify about the cleaners and rampers, I agree with you about crew members going through additional vetting that rampers/cleaners don't. I'm just saying that they are not just some random person. However, I think that their access to the SIDA area through something as simple as a SIDA swipe door and them being allowed to bring whatever they want through without going through any security screening is potentially a big security risk/problem.

I have no problem with verification of IDs, as long as it is uniform for all people who have access to the aircraft.

89-LX said:
I just did recurrent 2 weeks ago and I did ask. The official response: No regulation exists that they know of for a gate agent to verify my SIDA badge before going to the aircraft. I have a SIDA, I can swipe and go.
Click to expand...

Then it is probably airport specific, or in the case of ASA in Memphis, a situation where the gate agents are familiar with one company's policy and don't realize that it is airline specific and not airport/national policy and procedure.

89-LX said:
Our airline has no specific policy. What airline are you at if you don't mind me asking. You can PM me also.
Click to expand...

Check your PMs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top