SID and STAR altitude Question Help


New Member
SID and STAR altitude Question. Help from ATC guys needed

So this should be pretty simple but for some reason everyone I fly with seems to have a different opinion so I'm asking the experts. It's a pretty basic question but for some reason every airline guy I know doesn't seem to know the official word and suggests just asking (I don't have a problem asking but I feel there is an official answer and would like to know what it is instead of asking every single time!!). Here goes:

If there is a published crossing altitude on a SID or STAR, does an ATC "climb and maintain" cancel that crossing altitude? Example is the Pomona 7 departure out of ONT, California. They issue the POM 7 and tell you to climb and maintain 140000 but there is a fix along the way that says at or below 7000. If you switch to departure and they now tell you to climb and maintain FL 230 does that make any difference to the crossing restriction. Also, if this were an RNAV departure would that make a difference vs. conventional " ground based"?

Seems simple enough but honestly there doesn't seem to be a clear answer in the minds of the guys I work with. Here's what I think the answer to be; ATC's "Climb and Maintain" will cancel all other ATC issued altitudes but not any altitudes listed on a "conventional SID/STAR" unless explicitly deleted. For RNAV there is a separate phraseology and and an alt. given by ATC will delete all the altitudes on the RNAV SID/STAR without needing to explicitly delete the altitudes. As for our POM 7 example, I would maintain 7000 at the fix unless that fix was explicitly deleted.

Thanks for Help. References to the correct answer would be helpful also!

oreo 10

Well-Known Member
When a controller issues "climb and maintain" or "descend and maintain" it eliminates the SID/STAR restrictions unless specified in the climb/descend clearance.

Phraseology: "United 417, descend and maintain six thousand."

The pilot is expected to commence descent upon receipt of the clearance and to descend at the suggested rates specified in the AIM, para 4-4-9, Adherence to Clearance, until reaching the assigned altitude of 6,000 feet.

h. Instructions to vertically navigate on a Star/ RNAV Star/ FMSP with published restrictions.

Phraseology: "Descend via the Mudde One Arrival."

Clearance to "descend via" authorizes pilots:

1. To vertically and laterally navigate on the STAR/RNAV STAR/ FMSP.

2. When clared to a waypoint depicted on a STAR/ RNAV STAR/ FMSP, to descend from a previously assigned altitude at pilot's discretion to the altitude depicted for that waypoint, and once established on the depicted arrival, to navigate laterally and vertically to meet all published restrictions. ATC is responsible for obstacle clearance when issuing a "descend via" clearance from a previously assigned altitude.

Reference FAAO 7110.65R 4-5-5 and 4-5-6.