SID and STAR altitude Question. Help from ATC guys needed
So this should be pretty simple but for some reason everyone I fly with seems to have a different opinion so I'm asking the experts. It's a pretty basic question but for some reason every airline guy I know doesn't seem to know the official word and suggests just asking (I don't have a problem asking but I feel there is an official answer and would like to know what it is instead of asking every single time!!). Here goes:
If there is a published crossing altitude on a SID or STAR, does an ATC "climb and maintain" cancel that crossing altitude? Example is the Pomona 7 departure out of ONT, California. They issue the POM 7 and tell you to climb and maintain 140000 but there is a fix along the way that says at or below 7000. If you switch to departure and they now tell you to climb and maintain FL 230 does that make any difference to the crossing restriction. Also, if this were an RNAV departure would that make a difference vs. conventional " ground based"?
Seems simple enough but honestly there doesn't seem to be a clear answer in the minds of the guys I work with. Here's what I think the answer to be; ATC's "Climb and Maintain" will cancel all other ATC issued altitudes but not any altitudes listed on a "conventional SID/STAR" unless explicitly deleted. For RNAV there is a separate phraseology and and an alt. given by ATC will delete all the altitudes on the RNAV SID/STAR without needing to explicitly delete the altitudes. As for our POM 7 example, I would maintain 7000 at the fix unless that fix was explicitly deleted.
Thanks for Help. References to the correct answer would be helpful also!
So this should be pretty simple but for some reason everyone I fly with seems to have a different opinion so I'm asking the experts. It's a pretty basic question but for some reason every airline guy I know doesn't seem to know the official word and suggests just asking (I don't have a problem asking but I feel there is an official answer and would like to know what it is instead of asking every single time!!). Here goes:
If there is a published crossing altitude on a SID or STAR, does an ATC "climb and maintain" cancel that crossing altitude? Example is the Pomona 7 departure out of ONT, California. They issue the POM 7 and tell you to climb and maintain 140000 but there is a fix along the way that says at or below 7000. If you switch to departure and they now tell you to climb and maintain FL 230 does that make any difference to the crossing restriction. Also, if this were an RNAV departure would that make a difference vs. conventional " ground based"?
Seems simple enough but honestly there doesn't seem to be a clear answer in the minds of the guys I work with. Here's what I think the answer to be; ATC's "Climb and Maintain" will cancel all other ATC issued altitudes but not any altitudes listed on a "conventional SID/STAR" unless explicitly deleted. For RNAV there is a separate phraseology and and an alt. given by ATC will delete all the altitudes on the RNAV SID/STAR without needing to explicitly delete the altitudes. As for our POM 7 example, I would maintain 7000 at the fix unless that fix was explicitly deleted.
Thanks for Help. References to the correct answer would be helpful also!