SIC Experience/Type Rating with Part 135 Operators

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ilsbird

Well-Known Member
Greetings fellow aviators

I am in a bit of debate here. I have completed my Commercial Multi/Single Engine ratings along with Instrument privileges at a Part 61 flight school locally in the past few years. Like many, my goal is to go to the airlines, first regionals and on to majors hopefully. However, the way the economy is shaping up to be I would like to get some suggestons on the best route to build time. At the moment I have 350TT with 65ME. One way is for sure to go via the Flight Instructor Route. And 2nd I have been researching alot of cargo freight operators that offer first officer training programs such as Key Lime Air, Alpine Air etc. Now I have been hearing alot that flight instructor is a old way of building time and there are so many CFIs out there nationwide that is even difficult to find a job sometimes. Where as paying and training with a Part 135 Cargo Operator and getting a SIC type rating on a Beechcraft, Metroliner or some turboprop plane might get me like alot of multi time which will make me more marketable for the regionals. Both routes require financial investment so which route is the best to build time. If anyone is training with the Cargo Operators I listed above or others, plz share their experiences. Thank you.
 
I wouldn't pay a dime to be self loading ballast for a cargo operator.

Find a CFI. There isn't really much investment to get a CFI-A, just a lot if studying. Once you have 135 mins, look at the cargo operators.
 
Get your CFI. It is an investment that has much greater returns than the initial price.

You most likely will not get a SIC type rating as the aircraft are all single pilot that these cargo carriers fly.
 
I give this thread 12 more posts before it turns into a PFT discussion...:pop:

oh and get your CFI
 
Become a CFI. Never buy a job, it isn't worth it in the long run. Get your times up and go to a 135 company that will PAY YOU to fly... Also look into doing traffic watch, pipe line patrols, banner towing, jump plane, etc are other good time building jobs.
 
I'm sure you're a good guy, and there are lots of good guys who wind up PFJing, for whatever reason. With that said, if a PFJ resume ever comes across my desk (without personally knowing the person, at least), it goes straight in the circular file. Like I'd ever be in charge of hiring anywhere! Hah!
 
Employed by one of the companies listed above... I would say get your CFI package and teach. That's where you really learn to fly and build your knowledge base anyways. Paying for an SIC program is a thing of the past, even though we have four guys doing it right now! Besides, you'll only get 250 hours added to your TT.
 
FriendlySkies said:
Employed by one of the companies listed above... I would say get your CFI package and teach. That's where you really learn to fly and build your knowledge base anyways. Paying for an SIC program is a thing of the past, even though we have four guys doing it right now! Besides, you'll only get 250 hours added to your TT.
Click to expand...

You the Alpine 1900 driver out of FSD?
 
I fail to see how this is considered PFJ. Companies stick these guys in a single pilot aircraft. No PFJ if there is no job being taken. At this point what is the difference between buying PA-44 time or some Metro time?

Of course any time they step foot in a 2-crew aircraft it turns into PFJ.

CFIing will always be better than paying for time.
 
You are paying to be self loading cargo on a single pilot plane. You cannot legally log SIC unless they have had the ops specs ammended to require an SIC for that aircraft. Loggin SIC in a single pilot plane will raise questions to say the least about your times...

If people don't want to listen to us with industry go a head and shoot yourself in the foot with an expensive bullet...
 
Bandit_Driver said:
You are paying to be self loading cargo on a single pilot plane. You cannot legally log SIC unless they have had the ops specs ammended to require an SIC for that aircraft. Loggin SIC in a single pilot plane will raise questions to say the least about your times...

If people don't want to listen to us with industry go a head and shoot yourself in the foot with an expensive bullet...
Click to expand...

Or you have an OpSpec providing a specific exemption allowing pilots to log SIC in aircraft that don't otherwise require them. Much better than getting an OpSpec requiring an SIC for that aircraft because then the operator HAS to supply a SIC for all flights.
 
I don't think I've ever seen "...ops specs ammended to require an SIC for that aircraft", nor "...an OpSpec providing a specific exemption allowing pilots to log SIC in aircraft that don't otherwise require them".

Is there really such a thing for freight ops?

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I'm more familiar with the passenger carrying portion of the 135 Regulations. For carrying pax (IFR), EVERYONE is REQUIRED to have two pilots. The Ops Specs come into play because there are sections available that ALLOW single pilot operations under certain situations (often referred to as an autopilot exemption). In that case the operator is ALLOWED to only use one pilot if they so choose. They can also choose to use two pilots, in which case the second pilot can legally log SIC time because the 135 rules REQUIRE him to be there. See the distinction? The Ops Specs are not issued to ALLOW a second pilot, they are issued to ALLOW flying with only one pilot. At least that's the way it is for passenger operations.

Can anyone point me to the OpsSpecs that require two pilots in freight ops in what are normally single pilot aircraft?
 
Maurus said:
Several freight operators have the exemption to allow the logging of SIC in a single pilot aircraft.
Click to expand...

Does anybody know which OpSpec number that might be? I can't log on to WebOpss from my phone to look myself.
 
Maurus said:
Several freight operators have the exemption to allow the logging of SIC in a single pilot aircraft.
Click to expand...

SteveC said:
I don't think I've ever seen "...ops specs ammended to require an SIC for that aircraft", nor "...an OpSpec providing a specific exemption allowing pilots to log SIC in aircraft that don't otherwise require them".

Is there really such a thing for freight ops?

********************

I'm more familiar with the passenger carrying portion of the 135 Regulations. For carrying pax (IFR), EVERYONE is REQUIRED to have two pilots. The Ops Specs come into play because there are sections available that ALLOW single pilot operations under certain situations (often referred to as an autopilot exemption). In that case the operator is ALLOWED to only use one pilot if they so choose. They can also choose to use two pilots, in which case the second pilot can legally log SIC time because the 135 rules REQUIRE him to be there. See the distinction? The Ops Specs are not issued to ALLOW a second pilot, they are issued to ALLOW flying with only one pilot. At least that's the way it is for passenger operations.

Can anyone point me to the OpsSpecs that require two pilots in freight ops in what are normally single pilot aircraft?
Click to expand...

I am not sure of the opsspec # but Royal Air Freight had one for the E-110's. Other operations fly it single pilot.
 
IF anyone was to look at the part135 operation in the FAR, it's clearly listed that all 135 operations in IFR conditions require a SIC regardless of the aircraft type certificate. The exemption to this rule is if the aircraft is equipped with a certified Autopilot system which may be utilized in lue of the SIC, should the operator of the aircraft prefer.
 
Thats what the FAR's say, but the Op specs for many companies are different and the supercede the FAR's.
 
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