Should I stay or Should I go... (great song too)

BTAcola

BTAcola

New Member
So, here I am, been at Xjet for awhile now.... Just to see what my options were I interviewed with a company in my home town flying corporate jets outta California. I know the guys there, they like it, inst really a schedule or nothing, but they pay is far better than my airline and would be for the next few years until I upgrade anyways.

So what im looking for is guys that have left 121 to go 135 and if they have liked the move, or not and reasons for it. I'm two-ish years away from upgrading, and got about 700below me. SO if i leave, I give up my seniority, travel benefits. If I take the job back at home, I live at home, dont really have a schedule, on call, but they pay/benefits are better. I've never done corporate before, they offered me the job, guess they like me lol... so now its up to me... put in my two weeks notice and bounce... or stick it out 121. A part of me says take the corporate gig opportunity cause you may not get a chance later, and you can always go back to a Major later on down the road. But the other part of me, even though im a few years in already, says stay, fly the big airplanes, wear the uniform, fly into the big airports, etc etc.. I kinda like that still.. Thought it would rub off, but it never did. Wondering If i'll lose that feeling flying 135 or what?

But unlike some other 121 brethren, I have not come across days/situations where I dont like my 121 job- yet. I think the SJS is still with me- hasn't ever left. .... So really, I'm looking for people that have left 121 to go 135, and if they liked it or not. PMs or on Here responses are just fine! Thanks!
 
What do you want to be when you grow up a corporate or 121 pilot?

While there has been a lot of shake up in the 121 industry, last few decades, I think there is more stability there. There are a lot of corporate pilots out of work right now. At least that is the impression I am getting based on the fact anyone hiring expects you to be typed and current. This would not happen in a better environment. From interviewing in the corporate environment recently I have heard stories of planes being sold or just parked and pilots finding themselves out of work. Or long term corporate pilots that have moved from gig to gig over a career. Each job is different and QOL is all over the place.

I think a good 121 gig would be the most stable QOL. You will know your career path, schedule and eventually make some big money. If you get on with a good carrier like TWA, Pan Am or ... oh never mind.

If you decide to keep your 121 gig I would appreciate a PM on who is hiring in the Ontario area.
 
BTAcola said:
So, here I am, been at Xjet for awhile now.... Just to see what my options were I interviewed with a company in my home town flying corporate jets outta California. I know the guys there, they like it, inst really a schedule or nothing, but they pay is far better than my airline and would be for the next few years until I upgrade anyways.

So what im looking for is guys that have left 121 to go 135 and if they have liked the move, or not and reasons for it. I'm two-ish years away from upgrading, and got about 700below me. SO if i leave, I give up my seniority, travel benefits. If I take the job back at home, I live at home, dont really have a schedule, on call, but they pay/benefits are better. I've never done corporate before, they offered me the job, guess they like me lol... so now its up to me... put in my two weeks notice and bounce... or stick it out 121. A part of me says take the corporate gig opportunity cause you may not get a chance later, and you can always go back to a Major later on down the road. But the other part of me, even though im a few years in already, says stay, fly the big airplanes, wear the uniform, fly into the big airports, etc etc.. I kinda like that still.. Thought it would rub off, but it never did. Wondering If i'll lose that feeling flying 135 or what?

But unlike some other 121 brethren, I have not come across days/situations where I dont like my 121 job- yet. I think the SJS is still with me- hasn't ever left. .... So really, I'm looking for people that have left 121 to go 135, and if they liked it or not. PMs or on Here responses are just fine! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you senior to a U3XXX? If so, take the gig.

:)

I'd stay, but that's just me. A lot of guys in my requal class were doing charter and happily came back to XJT.
 
FlyingScot said:
What do you want to be when you grow up a corporate or 121 pilot?
Click to expand...


That's the problem, I really don't know what I wanna be when I grow up. I could stay airline... Maybe it's Charter/Corporate... I like the big airplane, big city flying but at the same time... it's all I know, I don't know the other side much at all.
 
jtrain609 said:
Are you senior to a U3XXX? If so, take the gig.

:)

I'd stay, but that's just me. A lot of guys in my requal class were doing charter and happily came back to XJT.
Click to expand...

Yes, you would get a bump... but who knows lol.. Thats the thing, guys i've talked to say, the grass isnt always greener, but thats why i've posted here, I don't know of anyone that has left 121 and went to 135... which is why im posting in here to find some thoughts. I know guys in 135 or 121, but none that have gone to either from the other.

thanks
 
Your'e asking questions that no one here can answer. None of us interviewed with the company. We don't know your career goals, or your life values. Any answer given here would reflect our priorities, not yours. You have to decided what your career goals and life values are, and decide accordingly.

That said, it seems to me regional airlines will be here a year or 5 from now. You don't like the corporate gig; or it doesn't like you, you can always go back to the airlines. In the meantime, you pick up new job skills and make yourself more marketable.
 
I went from a 121 left seat for a 91K/135 right seat. I've had a couple VERY brief moments of doubt, but then I just think about what I would be doing if I was still in the 121 world. No more commuting - if they want me somewhere that's more than about 40mins from my house, they have to buy the cab/rental car/plane ticket. I get to go to hell of a lot more places - sure we spend time in DEN, IAD, BOS, etc, but then we also get to go to some places that you couldn't find on a map if they paid you to. No more worrying about cancellations, tracking down pay, what do I get compensated for and what don't I - If I'm not at home, I'm getting paid, period. The work rules and FT/DT are VASTLY superior.

But that's just my opinion. I don't know all that much about the environment at your current OR potential employers. But as far as the switch went for me...so far, so good.
 
Teller1900 said:
but then we also get to go to some places that you couldn't find on a map if they paid you to.
Click to expand...

The irony of this statement is amazing.

jk man. Gotta call you again sometime, glad you are doing well. Although I'm sure you miss it!!! ha
 
Teller1900 said:
I went from a 121 left seat for a 91K/135 right seat. I've had a couple VERY brief moments of doubt, but then I just think about what I would be doing if I was still in the 121 world. No more commuting - if they want me somewhere that's more than about 40mins from my house, they have to buy the cab/rental car/plane ticket. I get to go to hell of a lot more places - sure we spend time in DEN, IAD, BOS, etc, but then we also get to go to some places that you couldn't find on a map if they paid you to. No more worrying about cancellations, tracking down pay, what do I get compensated for and what don't I - If I'm not at home, I'm getting paid, period. The work rules and FT/DT are VASTLY superior.

But that's just my opinion. I don't know all that much about the environment at your current OR potential employers. But as far as the switch went for me...so far, so good.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, you left Colgan for a charter gig?
 
O&M said:
Your'e asking questions that no one here can answer. None of us interviewed with the company. We don't know your career goals, or your life values. Any answer given here would reflect our priorities, not yours. You have to decided what your career goals and life values are, and decide accordingly.

That said, it seems to me regional airlines will be here a year or 5 from now. You don't like the corporate gig; or it doesn't like you, you can always go back to the airlines. In the meantime, you pick up new job skills and make yourself more marketable.
Click to expand...


:clap: Right on target, nothing more to say...
 
I agree that no one can answer this for you. As a datapoint, though, consider that corporate jobs tend to be totally awesome...until the economy farts and they sell the plane. I've had 5 jobs in the last 6 years. Some paid really well and were great fun. Some didn't and weren't. At this point, I'm mostly interested in stability. A seniority number (esp. when you're relatively far up the foodchain) gives a lot of stability. Good luck.
 
This is an interesting thread to me because I ask myself similar questions quite frequently. I grew up wanting to be an airline pilot and nothing else. By the time I was 26 I was flying for a major and loving life. The trip back down after 9/11 was frustrating and upsetting. It was difficult to be back at a commuter after spending even a few years at a major. I watched ALPA give away more and more flying, take away furloughee health benefits, etc. I volunteered on the communications committee and watched ALPA spend (waste?) an astonishing amount of money on fancy resorts to hold meetings far from any pilot domicile. Jets4jobs, TSA, scope giveaways.... I was disgusted with the airlines and with the shambles my career had become. I left part 121 because I didn't see a future there.

I was fortunate to be hired by a part 91 department that was superior in nearly every account to airline flying. The department had never laid-off a single pilot and was integral to the business enterprise. The pay was substantially better than the commuter I was working at, and the lifestyle was second-to-none. My first year, including recurrent, I spent about 10 nights in a hotel. I rarely worked weekends or holidays. The equipment was flawlessly maintained, and we were treated like valued members of the team.

There are no guarantees however and over time many of the attributes that this job held have degraded. The pay is still very, very competitive but the quality of life and security have suffered. Meanwhile the clock has kept ticking and you can't help but to think about going back to the airlines and - if you do so - how much time do you have left there? Enough to make it worthwhile? An enforceable contract would be nice, as would a seniority-number so that you could count on recall (someday) in the event of a furlough.

My biggest fear as a corporate pilot is losing my job at 50 or 55 years old and being unable to find another one...going non-current... and being forced into an early retirement that I was underfunded and unprepared for.

What do I miss about 121?
  • Feeling useful. In corporate I sometimes find myself spending days in a hotel far from home while our passengers conduct their business. During that time I am providing no value to my company, no value to my family. I am wasting time...and time, as we all know is precious.
  • Travel benefits. I would love to bring my son to work someday. Show him what I do and have him join me on a trip. Right now that is really not an option.
  • An enforceable contract.
  • The anonymity of a large pilot group (less office politics - at least personal office politics)
  • Being able to bid for specific days off that are important to me or to my family
What do I not miss about 121?

  • Crashpads / cheap hotels
  • Having to leave a day early to commute to position
  • TSA
  • ties, stripes, and hats
  • airplane changes during hub turns
  • missing holidays, birthdays, family events, etc
What would I miss about 91?

  • keeping hotel points
  • flying into challenging airports
  • really nice FBOs
  • being home on most holidays
  • no commute - home 30 minutes after I set the brake
  • opportunities to learn other skill sets valuable in case of lost medical or other issue
  • no-jeopardy recurrent
  • $$$$
What would I NOT miss about 91?

  • Airplanes with no APUs in the summer
  • Office politics
  • Job security concerns
  • FBOs made from double-wide trailers
  • Difficulty bidding vacation
  • Days off taken away or schedule suspended
  • Little predictability
  • Trips that exceed 4 or 5 days (tough to explain to a little boy why Daddy is gone for so long)
There are dozens of pros and cons to each job and it's associated lifestyle. It is a deeply personal decision and I don't envy you for having to make it. The worst part is when they ask during an interview, "Why do you want to work for Airline X?" and you realize you really don't have a very good reason.

Best of luck to you in your decision.
 
Found this list I wrote in 2005. Reasons I was glad I left the airlines: I should read it myself more often.lol


  1. No more hats (yes, I wore mine like I was told)
  2. No more ties
  3. No more dragging my rollaboard around with a 50 lb flight-kit attached
  4. No more dragging said rollaboard through ice/snow in the employee lot
  5. No more employee lot busses lacking air-conditioning, heat, and shocks
  6. No more waiting at employee lot bus-stops
  7. No more entering security codes at every &%@$# door in the building
  8. No more TSA telling me to take off my shoes
  9. No more TSA inspecting my flashlight for the 40th time
  10. No more TSA telling me to remove my hat
  11. No more TSA leaning in to smell my breath
  12. No more TSA
  13. No more gate agents taking their good ol' time printing the release
  14. No more waiting for gate agents to give you access to your airplane
  15. No more waiting for jetway drivers
  16. No more calling ops to ask for said jetway driver & being told, "shift change"
  17. No more flight attendants calling up front because it's too hot, cold, bumpy
  18. No more flight attendants sitting in first class instead of providing customer service
  19. No more flight attendants whining about not getting crew meals
  20. No more flight attendants whining when they DO get crew meals
  21. No more APU's deferred with no ground air carts available
  22. No more waiting for the hotel van
  23. No more roadside fleabag hotels
  24. No more :40 van rides to the long-overnight hotel so the F/As can shop
  25. No more apologies for being away on weekends, holidays, special occasions
  26. No more watching flying be outsourced to the lowest bidder
  27. No more watching ALPA spend dues on "strongly worded letters"
  28. No more ALPA (thats the best part!)
  29. No more delapidated "crew rooms"
  30. No more junior manning or extensions
  31. No more pagers
  32. No more calls from scheduling at 2am to transition you from regular reserve to short-call
  33. No more quick-calls to go to Akron and back
  34. No more racing through the terminal and grabbing a McValue Meal during a 15 minute break
  35. No more equipment changes every time you fly through the hub
  36. No more nastygrams from the company whenever you're in negotiations
  37. No more feeling ashamed at the lack of customer service the company provides.
  38. No more apologizing for weather, aircraft size, ATC delays, mechanical delays, etc.
  39. No more groundschools in converted hangars or old elementary schools.
  40. and finally... no more turning on CNN every night and wondering whether the airline is still in business.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Found this list I wrote in 2005. Reasons I was glad I left the airlines: I should read it myself more often.lol

  1. No more hats (yes, I wore mine like I was told)
  2. No more ties
  3. No more dragging my rollaboard around with a 50 lb flight-kit attached
  4. No more dragging said rollaboard through ice/snow in the employee lot
  5. No more employee lot busses lacking air-conditioning, heat, and shocks
  6. No more waiting at employee lot bus-stops
  7. No more entering security codes at every &%@$# door in the building
  8. No more TSA telling me to take off my shoes
  9. No more TSA inspecting my flashlight for the 40th time
  10. No more TSA telling me to remove my hat
  11. No more TSA leaning in to smell my breath
  12. No more TSA
  13. No more gate agents taking their good ol' time printing the release
  14. No more waiting for gate agents to give you access to your airplane
  15. No more waiting for jetway drivers
  16. No more calling ops to ask for said jetway driver & being told, "shift change"
  17. No more flight attendants calling up front because it's too hot, cold, bumpy
  18. No more flight attendants sitting in first class instead of providing customer service
  19. No more flight attendants whining about not getting crew meals
  20. No more flight attendants whining when they DO get crew meals
  21. No more APU's deferred with no ground air carts available
  22. No more waiting for the hotel van
  23. No more roadside fleabag hotels
  24. No more :40 van rides to the long-overnight hotel so the F/As can shop
  25. No more apologies for being away on weekends, holidays, special occasions
  26. No more watching flying be outsourced to the lowest bidder
  27. No more watching ALPA spend dues on "strongly worded letters"
  28. No more ALPA (thats the best part!)
  29. No more delapidated "crew rooms"
  30. No more junior manning or extensions
  31. No more pagers
  32. No more calls from scheduling at 2am to transition you from regular reserve to short-call
  33. No more quick-calls to go to Akron and back
  34. No more racing through the terminal and grabbing a McValue Meal during a 15 minute break
  35. No more equipment changes every time you fly through the hub
  36. No more nastygrams from the company whenever you're in negotiations
  37. No more feeling ashamed at the lack of customer service the company provides.
  38. No more apologizing for weather, aircraft size, ATC delays, mechanical delays, etc.
  39. No more groundschools in converted hangars or old elementary schools.
  40. and finally... no more turning on CNN every night and wondering whether the airline is still in business.
Click to expand...

As a guy pondering my own fate (potentially looking at a Citation X gig a friend of mine has), this list hits close to home... :)
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Found this list I wrote in 2005. Reasons I was glad I left the airlines: I should read it myself more often.lol
Click to expand...

Yesterday I worked 17 hours (from midnight until 5pm) because of a felony DUI arrest. That's 17 hours in my vest and duty belt. I was thinking to myself, "Self, you could be relaxing on an overnight right now, drinking a beer and having a burger at a pub in a cool city like Toronto or Savannah right now. Instead you're correcting paperwork. This sucks." That list just helped put it all back in perspective for me... so thank you.

To the OP, I say go for it. Think of it this way: You can always get hired from a major airline with your charter/corporate experience. However, it is VERY difficult to get hired by a large corporate flight department from a regional airline. You'll only be expanding your options and your network by taking the corporate job. You'll be limiting yourself to being "just another regional pilot" if you stay at XJT. Make the move and set yourself apart from the pack.
 
For the record I want to be an airline pilot when I grow up.

I am finding that 135 freight is not what the majors are looking for on the resume at this time, so I am looking to try out corporate to see if it suits me. In my search for corporate work I have talked with pilots and chief pilots whether they were hiring or not, just to find out about the industry.

From an outsiders position never having worked at either, here is how I have looked at the two portions of the industry.

Part 121 is predictable, you know what you are going to get to a point. You know what life is like working for Great Lakes vs Southwest and all those in between. Provided you don't get furloughed or the company goes out of business you know where you may be in 5-10 15 years and roughly what you will be making over your career. You know in advance when you have to work, when the flight will leave each day, and when you will be home. Provided you don't fly for SWA or a few others, you have an opportunity to fly overseas and only go to work a few times a month and make close to $200k someday. Added perks are jumpseat privileges and the option of commuting to work.

The only generalization I can make about corporate or charter is YMMV. I have heard of the two guys who get to fly the Global Express for $100k plus to exotic locations, hang out for a few weeks then come home. On the other end of the spectrum: You will start out making more than a Great Lakes pilot but you will never make Fedex money either. You may be on call 24/7/365 unless there is multiple crews on the same plane or the plane is down for MX. You may fly somewhere everyday to spend 10 hours sitting in the FBO for the clients to return. At the upper end you will be flying a Gulfstream, (G means gone) the ones flying overseas and back were some of the most burned out pilots I met, and I was hoping to hear about a paid vacation to Italy. From what I gather few pilots in that sector of the industry have worked the same job for more than a few years, so plan on switching jobs and or moving many times over a career. Seniority may not necessarily mean anything, so you may never get x-mas off.

I have been offered two jobs in a corporate/charter environment both right seat at around $40k with the expectation of either flying 25 days a month on the road, or working in the office or hangar when not flying. I am holding out for the job flying a Gulfstream where I can where shorts and a Hawaiian shirt.
 
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