Shot down Russian SU34 pilot / Interrogation/Interview on YouTube

Not correct. People aren’t locked away merely for coming here without permission. They may be in temporary detention pending deportation, but they aren’t locked away, as in a prison sentence, for that transgression.
Are they able to leave when they want to?

You mean to tell me that the “temporary detention” facilities are in fact totally voluntary and that all these “temporarily detained” people can simply leave whenever they want?

These people absolutely are locked away, and it’s double speak of the highest degree to say otherwise.
 
Are they able to leave when they want to?

You mean to tell me that the “temporary detention” facilities are in fact totally voluntary and that all these “temporarily detained” people can simply leave whenever they want?

These people absolutely are locked away, and it’s double speak of the highest degree to say otherwise.

in todays world of catch and release programs? Pretty much, yeah. If they are even detained much beyond initial arrest and processing.

locked away, in terms of a prison sentence? No. Remember, mere illegal entry into the USA is a federal misdemeanor. With no other extenuating crimes like an existing arrest warrant for another crime, these people are pretty quickly deported; being held only long enough until that occurs, or often catch and release. They aren’t imprisoned for any length of time. Those with outstanding federal or state crimes or warrants, are held until conviction by federal court, or extradited to whichever state, or even foreign nation, the warrant originates from.

This fantasyland worldview of not having any laws, and thus no one being held accountable for anything in their lives at all, is just that, fantasy.
 
Mike I'm curious about what happens when undocumented people are caught and there is suspicion that they are also either unknowingly or were coerced into smuggling contraband.

Like I'm picturing a scenario where a coyote leads people to a truck near the border and tells everyone they need to carry one of these burlap sacks over.

Is that a thing that happens with any frequency, and do those people usually face additional charges?
 
Mike I'm curious about what happens when undocumented people are caught and there is suspicion that they are also either unknowingly or were coerced into smuggling contraband.

Like I'm picturing a scenario where a coyote leads people to a truck near the border and tells everyone they need to carry one of these burlap sacks over.

Is that a thing that happens with any frequency, and do those people usually face additional charges?

It does happen, as smugglers aren’t exceptionally caring or friendly people regarding the welfare of those they are smuggling. When it does happen, the signs of someone being coerced vs the signs of someone who is a smuggler, are evident. Normally, a group of regular illegals who happen to be carrying drugs, were often coerced into it, and are having to do it even after having paid the coyote. But generally speaking, drugs not mixed with regular illegals..at least not high dollar ones, those are moved in their own smaller groups that are harder to detect, where everyone is a smuggler. Here’s the crap part of it: Oftentimes, coyotes will abandon groups of regular people who have paid them good money. They lead these people into open areas north of the border where they know there are cameras or other surveillance that can see them, then abandon the groups to fend for themselves, often people with no survival skills at all. This is because a dope shipment of all smugglers is normally not far away by a few miles, and the coyote has been tasked to get LE assets in on the group of illegals (who have already been ripped off, pretty much), while smuggling slips by elsewhere; the coyote either slips back south, or joins the smuggling group wherever it is at (they all have throwaway cellphone comms). But to answer your question, those coerced into carrying drugs aren’t charged with it, as those people aren’t the criminal felon droids that are being sought. Those people are still treated as misdemeanor crossers. It solves nothing to further charge them with smuggling charges when that isn’t who they are. I remember one agent who, when apprehending a group of regular illegals, found the coyote and his roll of cash. Asking how much everyone had paid, he refunded the illegals their money there on the spot before arresting everyone, as now, that money becomes personal property again of those who were appended and they get it back upon deportation, and not RICO money of the smuggler that gets seized by the govt. The illegals with no other felony record get deported, the smuggler gets further felony charges.

The ones who have it the worst are females being smuggled, as they are generally expected by coyotes to pay for smuggling services in other ways; which includes even young girls; and if they refuse, many different forms of violence or even death are in the cards for them. Then there’s the kids who are booted across the border to fend for themselves, knowing they will be seen by us, as again a decoy. Had a 5 year old walking with her 3 year old sibling, along the border dirt road in the middle of nowhere at 0200, where they’d been placed across the 3 foot fence and left to fend for themselves, with a couple of bottles of water and a small backpack with canned food they couldn’t even open. And the family units, some of which are actual related family members, and others where its obvious that the kids have no idea who the “parents” are……those kids either having been voluntarily or forcefully made to act like kids of others. Its a mess in many ways. You see everything, including North Korean illegals who crossed at the Goldwater bombing range near Ajo, AZ, and were monitoring USAF aircraft on the bombing range as they practiced, complete with cameras, rangefinders, phones, food/water, binos, etc.
 
This fantasyland worldview of not having any laws, and thus no one being held accountable for anything in their lives at all, is just that, fantasy.
I didn’t call for that - nobody (not even literal Anarchists) believes in there being no accountability. What this thread was originally about was Russian war crimes, and I thought the new found American outrage was part of our culture of happily punishing whoever we can get away with punishing.

You have stated that they aren’t not “locked away.” You’re playing semantic games with that and trying to draw those sorts of equivocations is silly when people are literally being prevented to go where they want by men with guns.

No, Mike these people are Not free to go, they’re “locked away.” Saying that it doesn’t count because it’s not “real prison” is nonsense.
 
I didn’t call for that - nobody (not even literal Anarchists) believes in there being no accountability. What this thread was originally about was Russian war crimes, and I thought the new found American outrage was part of our culture of happily punishing whoever we can get away with punishing.

You have stated that they aren’t not “locked away.” You’re playing semantic games with that and trying to draw those sorts of equivocations is silly when people are literally being prevented to go where they want by men with guns.

No, Mike these people are Not free to go, they’re “locked away.” Saying that it doesn’t count because it’s not “real prison” is nonsense.

No, the semantic gams are on your end, as “locked away” infers some long term prison sentence of incarceration. You are writing nonsense trying to make some point that doesn’t relate to the bigger incarceration subject. If you’re talking about felons who happen to be illegals being locked away for further felony crimes, you’d be correct. If you’re talking misdemeanor illegals who have been lawfullly detained under current laws, and are being held temporarily pending their deportation, that’s not “locked away with the key tossed”. They’ve been legally arrested. And to further erode your point, which i brought up and to which you ignorantly glossed over, is the whole catch and release policy currently in effect for these same people, where they are detained long enough to be processed, then released and told to appear for a court date. Either way it goes for the misdemeanor people, they’re lawfully arrested, and either lawfully temporarily detained pending immigration court adjudication to where they are released to their home country or any asylum claim is considered; or they are released inside the country, depending on the area they were caught, and told to report to a court date.
 
Agree with you about the American fetish for punishment. Disagree that we "didn't care" about war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least I certainly did/do.
You might have, but I distinctly remember a great many Americans clamoring against any sort of accountability.

To be perfectly honest I think the military did a damn good job of not acting like Tamerlane. The troops were incredibly restrained.

The civilian population back here in America? Not so much. I don’t know how many times I heard the most utterly awful statements by people, including suggestions to the effect of simply killing everyone. That and the support for Guantanamo etc.

You may have cared, many many people didn’t see it as a problem
 
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You might have, but I distinctly remember a great many Americans clamoring against any sort of accountability.

To be perfectly honest I think the military did a damn good job of not acting like Tamerlane. The troops were incredibly restrained.

The civilian population back here in America? Not so much. I don’t know how many times I heard the most utterly awful statements by people, including suggestions to the effect of simply killing everyone. That and the support for Guantanamo etc.

You may have cared, many many people didn’t see it as a problem

As one example, those Army soldiers involved in the Abu Gharib prison scandal, were rightfully punished. What they did was no way at all to try and win any hearts and minds of the Iraqi populace. Completely counterproductive to it, not to mention the complete breakdown in discipline that they were entrusted with.
 
No, the semantic gams are on your end, as “locked away” infers some long term prison sentence of incarceration. You are writing nonsense trying to make some point that doesn’t relate to the bigger incarceration subject. If you’re talking about felons who happen to be illegals being locked away for further felony crimes, you’d be correct. If you’re talking misdemeanor illegals who have been lawfullly detained under current laws, and are being held temporarily pending their deportation, that’s not “locked away with the key tossed”. They’ve been legally arrested. And to further erode your point, which i brought up and to which you ignorantly glossed over, is the whole catch and release policy currently in effect for these same people, where they are detained long enough to be processed, then released and told to appear for a court date. Either way it goes for the misdemeanor people, they’re lawfully arrested, and either lawfully temporarily detained pending immigration court adjudication to where they are released to their home country or any asylum claim is considered; or they are released inside the country, depending on the area they were caught, and told to report to a court date.
Actually, I took great pains to specifically use different verbiage:

“We incarcerate kids, the elderly, those whose crimes literally have no victims. We lock people away who have mental illness, substance abuse issues, and those who came here without permission”
 
As one example, those Army soldiers involved in the Abu Gharib prison scandal, were rightfully punished. What they did was no way at all to try and win any hearts and minds of the Iraqi populace. Completely counterproductive to it, not to mention the complete breakdown in discipline that they were entrusted with.
But also, the fact that no American will ever be tried at The Hague for bad behavior stems from the political and cultural reality of the situation - not really the military.

And that is what I was speaking about above “we’re the punishers we don’t get sent to The Hague - we send people to The Hague.”
 
But also, the fact that no American will ever be tried at The Hague for bad behavior stems from the political and cultural reality of the situation - not really the military.

And that is what I was speaking about above “we’re the punishers we don’t get sent to The Hague - we send people to The Hague.”

I think part of the problem with The Hague criminal court, besides our not being one of the ratifiers of it, is that’s its not a primary court of prosecution. If I remember right, its more a “last resort” criminal court when individual nations will not or cannot prosecute certain criminals on their own for such things as war crimes, humanitarian, etc. The US (my guess) sees itself as being able to adjudicate its own accused without hinderance when it comes to all crimes, and probably doesn’t see The Hague as a necessity in that regard. That’s just my guess.
 
Hey Mike. I just want to thank you for doing what you do and being willing to speak about what's going on in your world. We have a few people at JC who do interesting and important jobs on the front lines. Half the reason I come here is to hear about what's going on at the border or hear what some of the military pilots here have to say. Some of the best info is right here at JC.
 
Hey Mike. I just want to thank you for doing what you do and being willing to speak about what's going on in your world. We have a few people at JC who do interesting and important jobs on the front lines. Half the reason I come here is to hear about what's going on at the border or hear what some of the military pilots here have to say. Some of the best info is right here at JC.

Agreed. Mike's comments, maybe just in my own little world, reinforce the idea that the truth is somewhere in the middle of the political Narnia that so many Americans love to inhabit. Whether that be "they are coming to replace me" (right) or "there is no problem at all" (left).......no motivation to embellish that I have ever noted, and he (like you said) is one of the few I know working the true front lines.
 
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