Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the 'Lane

DrBenny

New Member
Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

Last time I was out in the 'Lane, I practiced short + soft + crosswinds. Per POH, shorts are performed at 60 KIAS. The school's recommendation is the same, and their recommendation for normal and soft is 75 KIAS, 70 KIAS short final (and adjust for weight).

My query has to do with that short field airspeed. Performing it, with full flaps, and stabilized at 500 fpm descent rate, I needed oodles of nose-up trim, and considerable power. I suppose if I steepened the angle to, say, 800 fpm, I wouldn't need so much trim. Anyway, the way I flew it, I got a VERY nice short field, with no fuss, and very short roll-out with minimal brake pressure and no flap retraction (though this is recommended in the POH). I felt especially good, making the first turn-offs behind slower, lighter birds like 172s and Warriors. I felt even better realizing that this was probably due NOT to exceptional skill, but the wonderful 182.

My question, though, is this: in my short-field configuration, I felt that the excessive power and nose-up trim was somehow unnatural, and that I was probably running slightly behind the power curve. What say you?
 

CAVOK

New Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

Yep...you were "behind the power curve". The point of the short field landing is to fly the airplane in the configuration you stated, so that when you reduce power, the airplane STOPS flying...minimal float, minimal distance, wheels right where you want them. Then you put the flaps up immediately to get the weight of the airplane off the wings and onto the wheels (where the breaks are), and elevator all the way back for aerodynamic breaking and to keep the prop off the ground
. The slower airspeed and higher power on final are used so that there is no floating down the runway after you reduce power. How steep your angle of decent is depends on the obstacles you have to contend with on the approach. As long as you are not at max power and still decending (no go around option close to the ground if that is the case), then your approach was completely "natural" even textbook...nice job.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

the kinetics behind a short-field approach speed is that you wanna have the minimal amount of speed to (at the moment of truth) convert into stopping the descent. the slower you go.. the higher the descent rate, and also the less velocity energy to stop the flare.

In the 'lane, I have approached a runway shallowly, got near the concrete... where stopping a descent (Faa calls this the 'roundout') is no longer a requirement... and then slowed that puppy to big ZERO indicated, usually requiring full power.

this is a sick, sick twisted version of what one does at altitude when practicing slow flight: pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. While in ground effect, keep pitching up and matching it with power. Its great. And when the throttle is maxed out, like said above, all you gotta do is pull about an INCH out of it and yank that flap handle up and WOW.. the shortest ground roll you ever saw !
 

DrBenny

New Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

Well, Golly--thanks! This is one of the things I enjoy about flying the 182. If you do your homework, memorize the numbers and SOPs, you've got a fighting chance to perform well. The POH proceedures for a short-field made me feel more behind the power curve in the 182 than in the 172, but the bottom line, I guess, is that they WORKED. It was fun seeing a Warrior use up most of the runway, followed by me in the Skylane having to ADD power so I could turn off at the first taxiway!

[ QUOTE ]
Yep...you were "behind the power curve". The point of the short field landing is to fly the airplane in the configuration you stated, so that when you reduce power, the airplane STOPS flying...minimal float, minimal distance, wheels right where you want them. Then you put the flaps up immediately to get the weight of the airplane off the wings and onto the wheels (where the breaks are), and elevator all the way back for aerodynamic breaking and to keep the prop off the ground
. The slower airspeed and higher power on final are used so that there is no floating down the runway after you reduce power. How steep your angle of decent is depends on the obstacles you have to contend with on the approach. As long as you are not at max power and still decending (no go around option close to the ground if that is the case), then your approach was completely "natural" even textbook...nice job.

[/ QUOTE ]
 

DrBenny

New Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

Could you elaborate? Wouldn't you be so nose-high that you'd get a tail strike?

[ QUOTE ]
In the 'lane, I have approached a runway shallowly, got near the concrete... where stopping a descent (Faa calls this the 'roundout') is no longer a requirement... and then slowed that puppy to big ZERO indicated, usually requiring full power.

this is a sick, sick twisted version of what one does at altitude when practicing slow flight: pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. While in ground effect, keep pitching up and matching it with power. Its great. And when the throttle is maxed out, like said above, all you gotta do is pull about an INCH out of it and yank that flap handle up and WOW.. the shortest ground roll you ever saw !

[/ QUOTE ]
 

Windchill

Well-Known Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

I would have to say short-field landings are definately not my strong suit and something my instructor barely, barely covered with me.
 

bluelake

Well-Known Member
Re: Short-Fields Sweet Spot and the \'Lane

sure..
its never happened yet. In any Cessna, I have only hit the tail ONCE. that was when I was a student pilot (3 yrs ago) and was learning a soft-field takeoff procedure.

I am no geometry buff. I suspect though that the critical angle of attack would be more than exceeded before the tail hit on any power-on-backside-power-landing "exercise". In a power-ON landing, it is arguable what the angle of relative wind truly is though.... likely something higher than horizontal.

that said, I am willing to try it as a test pilot for jetcareers
The 'lane will protext me
. Will let you all know what I find. (Anyone following my other posts - I will protect the taxi lights during runup hahaha)
 
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