Shooting ILS approaches in actual

JDean3204

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
In the last month or two I have had the joy of actual IMC during my IFR training. There has been a few flights, including both cross countries where I did not need a hood the entire flight.

Today we flew a cross country to Boeing Field, it was solid IMC the whole way up and during the approach. I made sure my approach was fully briefed, and even breezed through the plate a few more times for the ILS 13R approach at BFI. I was flying great up until the most important time of the flight, the approach! We were getting vectored onto final course, we were coming from the south and at times reaching 155GS ( that feels fast for a 172..:)) So long story short, the controller ended up vectoring us onto the final approach course. At that time I seemed to lose my SA, and shot through the loc, then over corrected, then again. All this while solid IMC as my CFI was giving me much needed advice. I was having a difficult time during the whole approach and even though I was within PTS, I felt like it was horrible.

A week ago I flew a 1.9 where 1.4 was actual and shot three approaches, a VOR-A, GPS-A, and an ILS. I also had some issues while shooting the ILS, not to the same extent however. Am I over thinking during the ILS approach, everyone says they should be the easiest one as all you do is fly the needles, I seem to have it backwards however.

Being so close to my checkride, I feel this may be an issue. My CFI says I am doing great and I will be ready, maybe my standards for myself are too high at the moment. I just want to be the best I can be, and it seems that these approaches are getting the best of me. Some great advice from you JC'ers out there would be great!!

Cheers
 
Would you say your problems are more aircraft control or situational awareness based?

My opinion is if you have to have solid SA, aircraft control will be much easier to learn. If you're behind the airplane, it's due to a lack of SA. Straighten that out first and the flying the needles becomes much easier.
 
Relax a little, I know that can be very hard to do at times but when your thinking clearly things go much easier. If you screw up something like intercepting the LOC then just leave it behind you. Dont dwell on it and focus on the task at hand. Im sure your instructor taught you this but on the ILS use HALF standard rate turns and no more than 1 degree pitch correction. That way your not moving too fast on the ILS and letting it get out of control.

We all make mistakes while flying we are all human. And you'll always be your own worst critic. Just relax a little and focus on the task at hand.
 
On the ILS especially it shouldn't be so much "following" (or chasing) the needles as it is "holding" the needles. If you set a pitch attitude on the attitude indicator, and a power setting typical for the plane, and have it trimmed for the airspeed you want, you can fly an ILS with very little deviation in as long as you catch the faintest deviation and do not over correct. I find a lot of my instrument students don't catch subtle deviations, and they let it go pretty far before realizing it (to me a quarter to half scale deflection off the LOC or having the GS a dot off, especially being low!). Also they will over correct, and it's bad as they get closer to the runway the GS, and LOC are very sensitive and over correcting is the last thing you want to do.

As others have said it SOUNDS like it's not SA that is your issue it might just be flying. Everybody goes through the same experience of having a "bad" approach even though it was to PTS. Practice/Experience is how we learn to make things better. Sounds like you're doing great in your instrument training just keep up the good work.
 
Small corrections! Remember the localizer is only about 2.5 degrees on either side, so really no more than about 5 degree corrections once inside the FAF. And remember it gets even more sensitive the closer you get (giggity?) It might have already been said, but don't chase the needle until it starts to swing in, as it'll just swing right back over the other side. Correct until it stops moving and it'll come back in.
Other than that... practice makes perfect. I flew my share of practice ILSs that could have turned scary in IMC ;)
 
On any nav aid flying, you don't try to follow the needle. You set a heading that should, based on your knowledge of the course you want to fly and the approximate winds, let you hold the needle steady. As a matter of fact, on an approach, particularly an ILS or LOC, having a needle 2 dots off, but steady the whole way is preferred to having a needle swinging back and forth 2 dots, but it happens to come out centered in the end.

So say your inbound course is 320, and the wind is out of the north. Once the needle starts to center, I'm going to turn to maybe 330, and hold that heading, and see how things go. The needle will either stay steady or start to move one way or the other. If it stays steady, great. I just hold that heading and continue to monitor. If it moves, I turn toward the needle (assuming a front course), but only a little. Say 5 degrees. Then monitor and see what happens.

The glideslope works the same way. You're trying to hold a particular rate of descent. In a 172, you're probably flying approaches at 90KIAS, so in no wind, that's about 500FPM. You adjust that for the wind (less for headwind; more for tailwind), and then see how your needle tracks. Make a small adjustment, and continue monitoring.

Basically, your time on an ILS should be spent flying a heading, rate of descent, and airspeed, while occasionally checking the needles to make sure they're behaving.
 
When your groundspeed is faster all your mistakes are amplified. If your doing 20 knots faster over the ground than what your use to, you just have to be prepared for the needle to move much quicker and for you to stay on top of any devaitions. If you can get stabilized early at those speeds it usually helps your reactions adjust to the speed. Remember your descent rate changes with groundspeed as well. If your on a three degree glide slope at 90 knots GS 450ft/min maintains glide slope. A 120 knots GS you need 600ft/min descent to maintain glide slope. Groundspeed is very important in approaches.
 
The localizer is tailored to provide 700 ft width at the threshold. That's 350 ft either side of the course. So half scale, which looks bad on a VOR indicator, is only 175 ft! The biggest mistake my students make is chasing a needle with 30, even 45 degrees of correction halfway down the ILS.

Be patient with the needles and use small amounts of correction. It's especially important to be close to your final approach course heading when you are about to reach DA. You want to airplane pointed in the right direction for seeing the runway. If you are chasing a needle, you may be pointed in the wrong direction for seeing any approach lights or runway.
 
As everyone here mentioned, fly a heading and a pitch attitude. If you're flying a fancy plane that gives you a wind readout, use it to determine the heading you need to fly, and use the ground speed readout to determine your target vertical speed. That should lead you to a heading, pitch setting and power setting. If you're on the glideslope or close to it, you don't need to make power changes at all unless your airspeed starts getting close to the limits. If you need to adjust course or glideslope, do it with the yoke, and get back to the heading and pitch attitude as soon as you can. .....keep the corrections small, use the target heading, pitch, and power settings, and then fight to not over control.

most importantly, listen to your instructor. Don't try to implement anything you read here if you've already figured it out to the point where you're within standards. You'll screw up more trying new unlearned things.
 
Wow, a TON of great advice here. I do understand trying to hold a freeze heading that will hold the needle, and if not centered correct no more than 5 degrees. I think it is just the actual that is getting me, we seem to get tossed around quite a bit in the clouds that makes the instruments dance some, then me trying to over fly the airplane to correct those deviations. then I wrestle with the glideslope since we are constantly bumping around, again I am sure some of that does have to do with me over flying the airplane. Everything seems to go fine under the hood, just not so much in clouds. I think that the fact I am still a tad nervous while IMC may have something to do with it.

Thanks again for all your input everyone!
 
JDean3204 said:
Wow, a TON of great advice here. I do understand trying to hold a freeze heading that will hold the needle, and if not centered correct no more than 5 degrees. I think it is just the actual that is getting me, we seem to get tossed around quite a bit in the clouds that makes the instruments dance some, then me trying to over fly the airplane to correct those deviations. then I wrestle with the glideslope since we are constantly bumping around, again I am sure some of that does have to do with me over flying the airplane. Everything seems to go fine under the hood, just not so much in clouds. I think that the fact I am still a tad nervous while IMC may have something to do with it.

Thanks again for all your input everyone!
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IMC is very different than a hood. That's why actual is 10x more valuable than hood time. Also, when you actually need to fly that ILS it's not very common that it's nice and perfect smooth.
 
I guarantee the dudes up front of the mighty war COD were doing this behind the boat case III.......you have a target descent rate, and a baseline wind corrected heading. From there you need to make positive and controlled corrections. Big corrections in the beginning, very small corrections in close. A lot of people dont think about the magnitude of their corrections when they are first starting. Be methodical, and when you get in close (the most challenging with the smallest margin for error) you will be making smaller corrections but at at a much higher rate than at the start. Im constantly moving the throttles from about 1/2 mile all the way into the landing area, and the amount of movement becomes not only more and more rapid, but also much smaller movements of the throttles themselves. Get to a good start, and you arent chasing what could have been big corrections early on, by making big corrections in close when you should only be making slight adjustments. Hope that makes sense, and maybe can tie in some stuff you probably have seen a lot in your previous life.
 
///AMG said:
I guarantee the dudes up front of the mighty war COD were doing this behind the boat case III.......you have a target descent rate, and a baseline wind corrected heading. From there you need to make positive and controlled corrections. Big corrections in the beginning, very small corrections in close. A lot of people dont think about the magnitude of their corrections when they are first starting. Be methodical, and when you get in close (the most challenging with the smallest margin for error) you will be making smaller corrections but at at a much higher rate than at the start. Im constantly moving the throttles from about 1/2 mile all the way into the landing area, and the amount of movement becomes not only more and more rapid, but also much smaller movements of the throttles themselves. Get to a good start, and you arent chasing what could have been big corrections early on, by making big corrections in close when you should only be making slight adjustments. Hope that makes sense, and maybe can tie in some stuff you probably have seen a lot in your previous life.
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What's a COD pilot doing without an instrument rating? Is he restricted to case I ops only?
 
A-300F4-622R said:
What's a COD pilot doing without an instrument rating? Is he restricted to case I ops only?
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IIRC the OP is a former COD aircrewman so my only point was that maybe he had seem what the guys up front do on occasion. Since you mention it, CODs don't do nights anymore.....I think Bunk got to do some night ops in it though before the policy shift. Day case II/III is fair game for them AFAIK however
 
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