SFO - we are in training, mistakes will happen

Kinda curious what the cross section of controllers is with military backgrounds. Not the case in every instance, and they surely have a lot to learn in a major airport or busy approach environment, but I do think they have their heads screwed on pretty tight by and large and understand their mission (to support pilots, rather than lash out). This isn't meant to be a mil vs civilian dick measuring comment, but those cats get a lot of seasoning before they ever even apply. I have no idea what the civ only route looks like, but I imagine it is a fire hose......which is to their credit, that's gotta be really hard. I will say from midnight to midnight, that I could never be ATC. That job is seriously hard
 
I got to visit Minneapolis tracon and tower and it was educational, the part I found interesting is at least for Minneapolis, dress code is whatever, it was funny seeing one of the local controllers giving instructions in his pajamas.
 
///AMG said:
Kinda curious what the cross section of controllers is with military backgrounds. Not the case in every instance, and they surely have a lot to learn in a major airport or busy approach environment, but I do think they have their heads screwed on pretty tight by and large and understand their mission (to support pilots, rather than lash out). This isn't meant to be a mil vs civilian dick measuring comment, but those cats get a lot of seasoning before they ever even apply. I have no idea what the civ only route looks like, but I imagine it is a fire hose......which is to their credit, that's gotta be really hard. I will say from midnight to midnight, that I could never be ATC. That job is seriously hard
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It’s probsbly at or a little over 50% have prior mil ATC experience, but that experience can vary wildly. Plenty of mil bases where you never talk to more than 2-3 planes at a time and in my personal experience it has very little bearing on how well one does in the civilian side. LOTS of • prior mil ATC. For the most part with exceptions, anyone working at your big towers/tracons didn’t get their start there but only after being at smaller tower or up/down for varying amounts of years first.

Working content 6 day weeks and 10 hour days with pay that isn’t keeping up with inflation and little to no ability to transfer anywhere and a union that has turned into a FAA spokesman while the Gov keeps trying to cut our pay and benefits isn’t good for tempers though (not that that is an excuse, controllers who argue on the radio are the WORST ones to work with and often bad controllers to boot.)
 
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woodreau said:
I got to visit Minneapolis tracon and tower and it was educational, the part I found interesting is at least for Minneapolis, dress code is whatever, it was funny seeing one of the local controllers giving instructions in his pajamas.
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No dress code. Gym shorts and t-shirt are standard
 
This controller has made the VAS aviation highlight reel before, the nerve to issue a phone number after that, unbelievable. I'd love to hear the phone call with the Brit ripping her up with the pompous British voice. Fly a 10 hour flight, crossing a runway, thrown onto a chaotic frequency with a BS clearance and you want to lecture about "knowing your aircraft" because you want a 777 to bail your (or the trainees) BS clearance out with a hard 90 turn?
 
Kingairer said:
This controller has made the VAS aviation highlight reel before, the nerve to issue a phone number after that, unbelievable. I'd love to hear the phone call with the Brit ripping her up with the pompous British voice. Fly a 10 hour flight, crossing a runway, thrown onto a chaotic frequency with a BS clearance and you want to lecture about "knowing your aircraft" because you want a 777 to bail your (or the trainees) BS clearance out with a hard 90 turn?
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Agree, this controller is nuts.
 
I know this controller personally. She has made VAS two other times in a major way. I can't stand this kind of stuff. If I got a number to call in that situation, my BCP, ALPA and the FODO would be on the party line with me. Honestly, I would have probably refused the number. Those poor controllers are overworked and burned out, I get it, but come the hell on...
 
Yeah, I wouldn’t take a number from her in this situation. Advise ready to copy, “unable.”

In fact, don’t even bother getting a number from her even when parked at the ramp. She’ll be forced to file a report and mark the tape, that will be reviewed by her bosses first higher up the chain. $100 says it would promptly “disappear” with her getting an earful from her boss(es).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yeah, I wouldn’t take a number from her in this situation. Advise ready to copy, “unable.”

In fact, don’t even bother getting a number from her even when parked at the ramp. She’ll be forced to file a report and mark the tape, that will be reviewed by her bosses first higher up the chain. $100 says it would promptly “disappear” with her getting an earful from her boss(es).
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She won’t have to file anything, no tapes will be marked, and nothing will happen to her.
 
NovemberEcho said:
It’s probsbly at or a little over 50% have prior mil ATC experience, but that experience can vary wildly. Plenty of mil bases where you never talk to more than 2-3 planes at a time and in my personal experience it has very little bearing on how well one does in the civilian side. LOTS of • prior mil ATC. For the most part with exceptions, anyone working at your big towers/tracons didn’t get their start there but only after being at smaller tower or up/down for varying amounts of years first.

Working content 6 day weeks and 10 hour days with pay that isn’t keeping up with inflation and little to no ability to transfer anywhere and a union that has turned into a FAA spokesman while the Gov keeps trying to cut our pay and benefits isn’t good for tempers though (not that that is an excuse, controllers who argue on the radio are the WORST ones to work with and often bad controllers to boot.)
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You guys are under payed and over worked with an administration that is doing way more harm than good. I feel for you guys/gals.

I just had it out with an Indy Center controller that was trying to get us to do unsafe stuff with our airplane and then proceeded to chew out my FO. I got on the radio and shut it down but it seems to be more of a common occurrence unfortunately.
 
jhugz said:
You guys are under payed and over worked with an administration that is doing way more harm than good. I feel for you guys/gals.

I just had it out with an Indy Center controller that was trying to get us to do unsafe stuff with our airplane and then proceeded to chew out my FO. I got on the radio and shut it down but it seems to be more of a common occurrence unfortunately.
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Yup. I’ve noticed this too. I’m used to having to act like a New Yorker when dealing with New York (yes, I am “afraid to get my plane wet,” deal with it). Elsewhere though…I’m starting to apply more of the caution I apply to ATC outside the US. I’m completely unqualified to be a controller but as an end user, the quality absolutely has tanked in the past few years.
 
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