SFO RNAV departures

[Autothrust Blue]

Most everywhere that has simultaneous RNAV departure procedures has phraseology like this:

Skidoo (___), Los Angeles Tower, RNAV to DOCKR, runway 25-right, cleared for takeoff.

where the RNAV to the first fix is to be read back as a part of the clearance to make sure you have the correct departure procedure set up (and it's really not a bad idea to contemporaneously look down and make sure that the first fix actually is DOCKR or DLREY or the ballpark or wherever). This is explained on the "hey all you pilot folks" pages for the DFWs, LAXs and ATLs of the world, but (last I looked, anyway) we don't have one of those for SFO.

We don't do this in SFO, either - though I think it would be a good place to have this sort of thing set up. I would venture a guess as to the SSTIK and TRUKN departures (for instance) being designed with the first fix for those departures off either 1L/R being the same (SSTIK, TYDYE irrespective of the departure runway for the SSTIK ONE and TRUKN ONE, respectively), so it isn't quite the nifty simultaneous sort of thing LA, DFW, ATL have. That said, if the "other" side of the mike can shed some light on why they don't do it up here, I would appreciate it.

 

[FM_Weasel]

Can SFO do simultaneous instrument departures on the parallels? They look pretty close together. If it's good weather, the tower is probably providing some visual separation but at the other airports you can launch simultaneously even when the weather is bad. I'm just guessing, I've already been shown that I have no idea what SFO does.

 

[queeno]

Ditto what FM said, has to do with side by side operations (IFR) which SFO cant do.

 

[adk]

According to 7110.65 paragraph 5-8-2:

When conducting simultaneous parallel runway departures utilizing RNAV SIDs, advise aircraft of the initial fix/waypoint on the RNAV route.

PHRASEOLOGY−

RNAV to (fix/waypoint), RUNWAY (number), CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

EXAMPLE−

“RNAV to MPASS, Runway Two−Six Left, cleared for takeoff.”

Does SFO count as simultaneous parallel runway departures?

 

[amorris311]

Most everywhere that has simultaneous RNAV departure procedures has phraseology like this:

Skidoo (___), Los Angeles Tower, RNAV to DOCKR, runway 25-right, cleared for takeoff.

where the RNAV to the first fix is to be read back as a part of the clearance to make sure you have the correct departure procedure set up (and it's really not a bad idea to contemporaneously look down and make sure that the first fix actually is DOCKR or DLREY or the ballpark or wherever). This is explained on the "hey all you pilot folks" pages for the DFWs, LAXs and ATLs of the world, but (last I looked, anyway) we don't have one of those for SFO.

We don't do this in SFO, either - though I think it would be a good place to have this sort of thing set up. I would venture a guess as to the SSTIK and TRUKN departures (for instance) being designed with the first fix for those departures off either 1L/R being the same (SSTIK, TYDYE irrespective of the departure runway for the SSTIK ONE and TRUKN ONE, respectively), so it isn't quite the nifty simultaneous sort of thing LA, DFW, ATL have. That said, if the "other" side of the mike can shed some light on why they don't do it up here, I would appreciate it.

I have had it both ways in SFO. Yesterday I was given the clearance, "RNAV to SSTIK cleared for takeoff 1L." The day prior did the same exact departure from the same runway and got the garden variety cleared for takeoff. I honestly would like to see them leave me on the RNAV long enough to see if the plane can actually make the turn without full scale deflection. The SSTIK seems to be heading immediately once checking in with NorCal.

I do like how they have changed the phraseology though with the RNAV arrivals from the south. The SERFR was a bit confusing since it has different transitions. Maybe it is the awesome LIDO charts I get to familiarize myself with.

Good questions though. I too am interested in the responses.

 

[FM_Weasel]

According to 7110.65 paragraph 5-8-2:



Does SFO count as simultaneous parallel runway departures?

Not simultaneous. If you see them launching simultaneously it's because it is good weather and the Tower is providing Visual Separation, which is a separate set of rules.

If they are really applying Simultaneous RNAV Departure Procedures, then the "RNAV to <waypoint> Cleared for takeoff" should apply. This may be something that they're continually working on, so perhaps it's changing as we speak?