Sexiest plane in the Navy!!!!

willc said:
Alright, why do you have to rain on my parade? :mad: I am quite aware of the age and how crappy the plane is. But someone's got to do the job!

.

One thing I like about the Prowler is it's one of the last of the tactical jets (or any jet for that matter) with true turbojet engines, not turbofans. Loud sons of bitches when they go mil thrust on takeoff. Love it!
 
SeanD said:
I know a Marine EA-6 pilot stationed up in Whidbey. Omar the shiek is his name :),

I thought Omar the Shiekh was a Brasilia captain? :) :sarcasm:
 
MikeD said:
One thing I like about the Prowler is it's one of the last of the tactical jets (or any jet for that matter) with true turbojet engines, not turbofans. Loud sons of bitches when they go mil thrust on takeoff. Love it!

Thanks for the factoid on the engines. I didn't realize they were turbojet and not turbofan, the website I listed above says turbofan but a modern warplane book I have says Jet. I just got done flying the t-39 sabreliner and that has turbojet as well.

loudest sons of bitches in the navy if not in the military. I love the saying "Jet noise the sound of freedom"
 
willc said:
Thanks for the factoid on the engines. I didn't realize they were turbojet and not turbofan, the website I listed above says turbofan but a modern warplane book I have says Jet. I just got done flying the t-39 sabreliner and that has turbojet as well.

loudest sons of bitches in the navy if not in the military. I love the saying "Jet noise the sound of freedom"

In the T-39, they used to have the guy that flew with the toothpick and helped out the NFOs. Heard he was in the Georgia accident. Any truth to that?
 
CONGRATULATIONS! on selecting what is arguably the most technically demanding field of warfare in the world today. Unlike some other platforms, you will get to employ the weapon system every time you fly (just don't point it towards Seattle Center - they get kind of pissy about that...) You will become qualified to fly two missions (frontseat/backseat) across at least two variants of aircraft! The plane is old, but the technology is fairly new, and you'll be able to tell the young turks in the Shocker (EA-18) how it was back in the day!

Allow me to impart some stuff I wish I had known when starting out. Take it or leave it, all of it is personal opinion/observation. Some of it, you may say, "DUH!!!" but it's all stuff I've observed. Some of it is VAQ specific, some of it overall JO wisdom. Here goes:

1. Congratulations-you are now a winged NFO. This means that scoring a 100% on a written test or getting an Above Average on a flight is no longer the end all be all of your existence. The only selection left for you is squadron, and that is largely preference/flip of the coin. What IS important now is the knowledge and deep understanding of EW and the EA-6B that you must strive to acquire. You are now on the quest for credibility, not grades.

2. You will spend 12 weeks TAD at a course called AVEWS. This is the course that you will hate now but will wish you had payed more atttention to when the shooting starts. You will learn EW here from the ground up, and you will be expected to know this stuff from here on out, as this is the only time it is presented. Put in the requisite effort and don't go play golf when classes let out at 1200-1300. Study til 1700 instead!

3. You WILL graduate from the FRS (RAG). Pay attention, study hard, but relax, and actually LEARN NATOPS this time, instead of worrying about passing tests so much. No one will care a year from now whether you got a 100% on the NATOPS test or squeaked by, as long as you actually know your stuff. Don't argue grades/standardization issues/etc. during the post-flight/sim debrief. Turn MSTR RAD off and LISTEN.

4. You will be required to log a certain amount of "warmbody" backseat time at the FRS before your flight phase. As much as possible, fly actual graded events vs. bouncing, even if it means showing up at 0430 and staying til the end of your crew day (LOL-jab at USAF). This way it is possible to get all the "gouge" on some of the pitfalls of flights you will eventually be graded on. Take notes on how to brief and fly!

5. When you graduate the FRS, you will feel awesome. This will be the peak of your technical understanding of the aircraft. However, in the grand scheme of things, you are a freshly minted COMM (to compare to civil). You become an "ATP/PIC" in two years or so when you become a qualified mission commander. To that end, your #1 priority upon checking into your new squadron should be to get started on your 1-2 year long PWTP (Prowler Weapons and Tactics Program) quals, levels 2 and 3 (level 1 is the FRS). Until you're a MC, you can't fully contribute to the squadron's mission!

6. Consider everything that you currently know about the Prowler and EW. This is how much everyone ELSE knows about it too! Even Generals and Admirals. Once operational, you will be THE subject matter expert on EW tactics, integration, and capabilities. Even if you are only a "jg" the JFACC will want a thorough, well informed answer when he calls on you at the stand-up. Don't be the guy who gave your squadron a bad name! A lot of folks speak the language of Air to Air and dropping ordnance. Not many are well versed in EW. Viper drivers will sometimes believe you if you tell them that your jamming will affect their Fly By Wire (LOL-it happened once!) Keep this in mind as you become an information sponge over the next few years. Never say, "I'll never need to know that," because you will!

7. Your first 6 months in the squadron, listen 90% of the time. Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut. Even if the Skipper/senior O-4 does incorrectly brief go/no go criteria. Unless he's about to do something to get you killed, he/she is the Skipper/Department Head, not you. Even if you are right. :) When you are a mission commander, you can legitimately debate tactics with the old salts.

8. Never pass up the opportunity to go on a cross country. Never.

9. When you find out that you have the duty on Christmas Day, smile, say "roger that," and make sure to bring coffee and donuts for all the sailors who don't want to be there any more than you do. No matter what, do not complain, especially in front of the troops.

10. If you don't like your new callsign, please don't bring it up. If you stay quiet and laugh it off, it may be revised the next time you do something stupid. If you speak up, it will stick:)

11. Never believe rumors/first reports. Things are never as bad as they seem.

12. Your primary job at the sqn will be some collateral duty, not flying. The first collateral duty you are assigned will be relatively minor, since they want you to have ample time for learning. Typical "FNG" duties include coffee mess/snack-O, legal, personnel, Assistant Tactics, TEAMS(the mission planning computer, they may have moved on to JUMPS by now? Anyway, learn the heck out of it at the FRS!), etc. THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION! If you are the coffee mess guy, turn it into a cottage industry to rival ebay. Go beyond buying coffee - get tshirts, mugs, have bakesales- who cares, but do the job to its fullest! If you are the legal O, then strive to become a Jr. JAG who can spit off UCMJ articles on cue! No matter how much of an SLJ it may seem, give it your all! It will pave the way to a successful future!

I think Whidbey is heaven on earth. They only tell people it rains all the time to keep the tourists out! October through May is kind of overcast/yucky, but June through September is pure magic. It's not Seattle, so don't plan on a lot of clubbing/bar hopping, but I think it's a natural wonderland for hikers/bikers/skiiers. Make the most of it!

I would be more than happy to answer any other questions you may have - my info is only about 1-2 years old, so it should be relatively pertinent.

And above all, WELCOME TO THE FLEET!!!!
 
MikeD said:
In the T-39, they used to have the guy that flew with the toothpick and helped out the NFOs. Heard he was in the Georgia accident. Any truth to that?

I flew with "Toothpick!" I hope he's OK! Some of those guys were ANCIENT! LOL
 
FlyNavy said:
I flew with "Toothpick!" I hope he's OK! Some of those guys were ANCIENT! LOL

Yeah, rumor was that he was in that latest accident that VT-86 had in Georgia. Can't confirm, though.

And I fully agree with your jab above at the Air Force "staying until end of crew duty day." It's so true. Wish we were like the Navy....come in only when you're on the flight schedule. You guys definitely get that right.
 
MikeD said:
Wish we were like the Navy....come in only when you're on the flight schedule.

Yeah! LOL It's just like that! You know what I was talking about, heavies are notorious for it! "Sorry, gotta canx, we're into crew rest!":)
 
FlyNavy, thanks for the gouge! I am going to keep that info handy for sure. I am so stoaked about getting up to Whidbey and getting started on my platform. I am really excited to learn about an aircraft I will be in for more than 8 flights.

I grew up in Everett, Wa so I am quite familiar with Seattle and the the surrounding Puget Sound area (including Vancouver, BC). I LOVE IT!! I can certainly say it had a contributing influence to me choosing Prowlers.

As far as the t-39 pilot, I don't know for sure if it was 'toothpick' because the crash happened just prior to me getting to VT-86. But yeah those pilots are older than dirt. They have a ton of great stories from an era of tactical aviation we will never know. MikeD, FlyNavy, have you ever had Spud, Skull, or Slow? You know thats a great time.
 
Is the Prowler cockpit a side to side seating? Or pilot in front and NAV in back?

Also as a NAV do you "willc" get to pilot the aircraft or are you only responsible for the EW?

Lastly about three years back at KDMA I was talking to a NAV on the Viking during an airshow. He explained to me that he didn't want to fly cargo or for the airlines because when he gets out he would have to get his ratings for the civilian sector all over again (or something to that) because he didn't have flight time hours.

Any truth to that?
 
willc said:
FlyNavy are you a boat squadron or expeditionary guy?

I was in an expeditionary a couple years back during ONW/OSW and the very beginnings of OIF. I then worked as an EW instructor followed by some TLAM stuff. I have since moved on to "greener pastures" in the civilian world. I had a great time doing what I did, but it was looking less and less likely that I would end up back in the cockpit, so I decided to punch instead of suffering through staff jobs and hardship tours on the way to 20 years. I currently work in the intelligence community doing EW related stuff.

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Is the Prowler cockpit a side to side seating? Or pilot in front and NAV in back?

Also as a NAV do you "willc" get to pilot the aircraft or are you only responsible for the EW?

Lastly about three years back at KDMA I was talking to a NAV on the Viking during an airshow. He explained to me that he didn't want to fly cargo or for the airlines because when he gets out he would have to get his ratings for the civilian sector all over again (or something to that) because he didn't have flight time hours.

Any truth to that?

The EA-6B has 4 crewmembers - 1 pilot and three NFO's. An NFO in the EA-6B is called an "ECMO" (Electronic Countermeasures Officer) just like an F-14 NFO is (was?) a "RIO" and a F-18F NFO is a "WSO". The seating is two side by side and two cockpits in tandem. If you've ever ridden in a VW bug (old style) that's about the size of each cockpit.

Only the pilot has flight controls, but ECMO 1 (the guy up front) qualifies as a crewmember for purposes of lower IFR mins. The duties are as follows:

Pilot: Flies the plane (duh!) and is PIC, overall in charge of safety of flight. Coordinates with ECMO 1 to execute tactics and overall gameplan. Pulls trigger for HARM when ECMO tells him it's OK (LOL:) )

ECMO 1: This is typically where the Mission Commander will sit (if he's not the pilot). Copilot duties, Navigation, talks on radio (pilot does not usually), works timing, tactics, and gameplan for HARM shots, has MASTER ARM switch, can operate the USQ-113 Comm Jammer (can also be operated from a laptop in the back - squadron specific technique), has radar controls, controls secure comms. No flight controls (although you can reach the pilot's controls) so no flight time can be logged - only Special Crew Time which counts for jack in the outside world (so yes Max you are right, a 1500 hour NFO and a zero time PPL student are exactly the same in the FAA's eyes). ECMO 1 must also be an experienced therapist/grief counselor when the pilot is having a not so fun night at the boat!

ECMO 2&3: Guys in back. Positions are almost identical. Back and front are separate quals, but EA-6B ECMO's will fly any position at any time (it's not like B-52's where you're a NAV for a year or so and then upgrade to Radar NAV - an ECMO will fly in any position from day 1). The back seat is where the heart of the mission takes place: Electronic Attack (Jamming), Electronic Surveillance, Comm Jamming, LINK 16 (on ICAP III), HARM designation and handoff to the front cockpit, communication on HF and EW nets, coordination with other EW players (EP-3E, F-16CJ, F-18 SEAD, RIVET JOINT, etc, etc), and situational wareness for the front cockpit on threat locations for self protect against surfacce to air/air to air. A good ECMO can listen, understand, and communicate on 3 freqs at once, all while ID'ing and prosecuting a threat emitter in under 30 seconds. CRM takes on a whole new meaning!

Also, WillC - you will find out that the Electronic Attack community has expanded to much more than SEAD. In fact, EA-6B's have a vital role to play in the GWOT, CAS, and force protection, for example. Without giving anything away, Just keep in mind that ANYTHING that has a receiver can be degraded, denied, or destroyed!

Hope this helps!
 
FlyNavy said:
Also, WillC - you will find out that the Electronic Attack community has expanded to much more than SEAD. In fact, EA-6B's have a vital role to play in the GWOT, CAS, and force protection, for example. Without giving anything away, Just keep in mind that ANYTHING that has a receiver can be degraded, denied, or destroyed!

Hope this helps!

Yeah, that is so cool. I was sold on the Prowler when one of my instructors was telling me that every time he flies he employs his weapon. I asked a Super Hornet guy how often he employed his weapons and he could only recount a handful of times. We just had a Prowler brief a couple weeks ago from the Commodore up at Whidbey and he had a lot of great things to say about where the EW community was going and what they were doing. He said the only frustrating thing is that you can't necessarily 'see' what you are doing to the enemy you just know that what you are doing is saving lives.

Just thinking for a few years down the road, but what EW employment opportunities are there outside the cockpit? Just curious because I'm not sure I'll be a lifer. Amazing how family and a kid changes things.

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Lastly about three years back at KDMA I was talking to a NAV on the Viking during an airshow. He explained to me that he didn't want to fly cargo or for the airlines because when he gets out he would have to get his ratings for the civilian sector all over again (or something to that) because he didn't have flight time hours.

Any truth to that?

Maximillian_Jenius, FlyNavy already answered your questions about the flight time but I just had to say that it is extremely frustrating that you have the knowledge of a Commercial rated instrument pilot and just because you aren't playing with a stick between your legs your flight time pretty much counts for crap in the eyes of the FAA. In the beginning of flight training we get about 10 hours of actual pilot time in the T-6 and that time is still recorded as Special Crew time, which if you are just observing in the back of a T-39 and have no responsibility during the flight it is also counted for Special Crew time.
 
willc said:
Just thinking for a few years down the road, but what EW employment opportunities are there outside the cockpit? Just curious because I'm not sure I'll be a lifer. Amazing how family and a kid changes things.

I can answer this question with some insight as I just went throught the hiring process myself! You will have two HUGE things going for you - an active TS/SCI clearance and an OPERATIONAL EW background, not to mention the benefits of just having been in the military, being able to "speak the language" and sharing that bond with potential employers (where do you think they started?). If you can, get yourself involved in any sort of RTD&E type stuff, and volunteer to go to any testing or bonus courses (for example, NSAWC, TOP GUN, Strike U, etc., all have short "SME (Subject Matter Expert) courses. You could also try to become a squadron PTI (tactics instructor) which is the EA-6B equivalent of the USAF Weapon School, and become a "patch wearer." All would be icing on the cake!

Don't be afraid to pick a shore duty or disassociated sea tour that will broaden your technical horizons too.

I have many friends who got out after 8-10 years. They are doing stuff like: JSF EW suite engineering, F-22 EW suite engineering, EA-6B ICAP-III development, EA-18G work (Boeing St. Louis), NORAD C4ISR program, NSA, NRO, DOD intelligence production centers (as civil servants or contractors), the list goes on! As a Prowler guy, never let anyone ever tell you that "NFO" stands for "No Future Outside"!

Having a technical degree will help even more. I HIGHLY recommend getting a postgrad in something (I got an MBA) when you can (1st shore tour, most likely). The mere presence of a postgrad degree can be worth an extra $20K a year.
 
I really appreciate hooking me up with the awesome info! Thats cool that there is a future outside using the skills and technology that I am about to learn. Makes me want to know everything I can about EW. Like you said be the resident expert.

Are all of those extra courses something you can choose to go to or is it something that the squadron selects you for?

Sorry, if I am like one of those teenage kids at an airshow that asks a million questions about that big grey thing with wings you are standing in front of. Is that an F-14? Do you shoot missiles like Top Gun? Are those Bombs? "Sigh, No that is an external fuel tank!" :sarcasm:
 
willc said:
Are all of those extra courses something you can choose to go to or is it something that the squadron selects you for?

Sorry, if I am like one of those teenage kids at an airshow that asks a million questions about that big grey thing with wings you are standing in front of. Is that an F-14? Do you shoot missiles like Top Gun? Are those Bombs? "Sigh, No that is an external fuel tank!" :sarcasm:

It's more of a "hey skipper, I found out about this 2 day HARM SME course at NSAWC, if we have any TAD money leftover can I go pretty please?" Some of the stuff is available right there at Whidbey either through the Weapon School or NSGA (building with razor wire fences and lots of antennas-you'll find out what it is later). PTI is something you can pursue after you attain your MC qual, so getting that ASAP is the first step. Then if you are Sierra Hotel, and let it be known that you are interested, you may get the chance to undergo the Weapon School Lobotomy!

Alot of new guys just aren't motivated enough to go the extra mile. EW is extremely technically challenging and they have a bad attitude that they're shooting 'trons instead of dropping GBU-10's. I'm glad to see you are motivated and excited to be going into EW, and am therefore more than happy to answer all your questions. If there was a Jetcareers back in 1998 I'd be doing the same thing!:)
 
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