Seriously?! An hour + taxiing in JFK?

Timbo said:
I LUV it!

But I wonder how long SWA will keep serving LGA. I'll bet it goes junior for them!
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I don't think there's any sort of bid preference for it. It's not a base, so if they have PBS, the best they can do is "avoid LGA overnights" or turns or whatever their preferences are. I've never understood why the frak they ever wanted to fly into LGA in the first place. It's flying in the face of their basic business model, and the whole reason they served ISP was to stay away from all that.

jetBlue has a LOT of red eyes from what I heard from the hiring dept guys. Might be how they keep their performance numbers right. That or they overinflate the block times to compensate for 1+ taxis. I'm not looking forward to operating in and out of JFK......
 
"Landings in..." is actually a little more effective if you have that option in your software! ;)
 
Why are you guys complaining? I wouldn't mind sitting there and getting paid extra.
 
I know, just checking!

I still remember the discussion a few years ago that PBS is not necessarily PBS.
 
Oh yeah! When I was flying the Express operation in MCO, there was nothing "preferential" about it! :)

I was referring to some people jumping for joy when the idea of ASA going to PBS was in it's infancy.

"Whoah there Sparky! It all depends! :)"
 
A300Capt said:
I was just in and out of there last night. I usually try to avoid JFK but like a bad case of skin rash it keeps showing up on my schedule!:mad: An hour delay...that's nothing there! SOP around that place! They generally operate on the 1-2-3 rule....1 cloud, 2 rain drops...3 hr delay!!;)

It's a mystery to me how JetBlue maintains any type of schedule outa there!:dunno:
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I find PHL when they are using the 9's worse, personally!
 
mikecweb said:
Why does everyone bag on Southwest? Never understood that.
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As far as I can discern, it's that they work really hard, have really cheap tickets, provide exceptional (if bare-bones) service, have a stable career progression, and miraculously have reasonably friendly labor relations. In short, everything no one else has. And who does it hurt that they take the intersection? If it's in their opspecs and their peformance numbers are ok, why not? And how does one "cut off" other aircraft under IFR...I think maybe your complaint is with the FAA?
 
Boris Badenov said:
As far as I can discern, it's that they work really hard, have really cheap tickets, provide exceptional (if bare-bones) service, have a stable career progression, and miraculously have reasonably friendly labor relations. In short, everything no one else has. And who does it hurt that they take the intersection? If it's in their opspecs and their peformance numbers are ok, why not? And how does one "cut off" other aircraft under IFR...I think maybe your complaint is with the FAA?
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Kinda what I was thinking. Never hurts to ask, and if you don't, you'll never know. Now, intersection departure in LGA, that takes balls to ask for it, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Just like if I ask for "direct PXV" coming from DTW to MEM or something and I get it, did I just cut off the DC-9 or MD-11? Who knows? All I know is I asked for something quicker, and it was approved.
 
kellwolf said:
Kinda what I was thinking. Never hurts to ask, and if you don't, you'll never know. Now, intersection departure in LGA, that takes balls to ask for it, but I don't see anything wrong with it. Just like if I ask for "direct PXV" coming from DTW to MEM or something and I get it, did I just cut off the DC-9 or MD-11? Who knows? All I know is I asked for something quicker, and it was approved.
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No, they out climbed you and hauled arse... I had someone that knows me pretty well give me a hard time for taking off BEHIND me and going from 36C to FL350 in the time it took us to get to a center handoff... Both going to IND... Me being the CRJ 200 and him in the MD-11 kinda made it unfair...


For the record... I hate the JFK airport. It shouldn't be such a cluster, but it is.
 
Boris Badenov said:
As far as I can discern, it's that they work really hard, have really cheap tickets, provide exceptional (if bare-bones) service, have a stable career progression, and miraculously have reasonably friendly labor relations. In short, everything no one else has. And who does it hurt that they take the intersection? If it's in their opspecs and their peformance numbers are ok, why not? And how does one "cut off" other aircraft under IFR...I think maybe your complaint is with the FAA?
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They must really hate me then. If I can take an intersection takeoff and get the heck out of there, I will. Eat my dust suckaz! You guys get paid by the minute and I don't unless I have a really long duty day. Plus I can be up and out of your way before you even knew what happened.:D
 
KLB said:
They must really hate me then. If I can take an intersection takeoff and get the heck out of there, I will. Eat my dust suckaz! You guys get paid by the minute and I don't unless I have a really long duty day. Plus I can be up and out of your way before you even knew what happened.:D
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Not us. If we only overblock it by 15 minutes (and it's on the taxi), we just ate those 15 minutes. Senior guys, even after the intro of the JFK base, are still saying we don't need duty rigs. Hopefully, after they wind up working 4 15 hour days in a row that were originally scheduled to be 9 hour duty days with 5 hours of flying, they'll change their tune.
 
Boris Badenov said:
As far as I can discern, it's that they work really hard, have really cheap tickets, provide exceptional (if bare-bones) service, have a stable career progression, and miraculously have reasonably friendly labor relations. In short, everything no one else has. And who does it hurt that they take the intersection? If it's in their opspecs and their peformance numbers are ok, why not? And how does one "cut off" other aircraft under IFR...I think maybe your complaint is with the FAA?
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My issue with Southwest (and this has been hashed out before) is that they are constantly in a go go go mood. If I am using a low cost index number I don't want to be told by Center to do 310 or better because Southwest behind me wants to go fast. Sure, I can respond "unable" but that's not the point.

The intersection departure is annoying because when they are allowed to do it they do "cut in front of" everybody else in line. When you are in a lineup for a runway, it's your turn when you get there. ATC is normally a first come first served operation. Just because you are willing to take a point in the runway closer to you shouldn't allow you to get to the front of the takeoff que. Hell, I can take an intersection most of the time too but I don't constantly ask for because I believe in the line principle.

And as far as getting "cut off" under IFR... It's not normally. It's on visual approaches normally where they will just head right to the numbers even if they are number two for the field. BNA is terrible about this. I've had to do 360s a few times now because they end up right in front of us even though they were supposed to be following us.

It happens. I'm not complaining, I'm just commenting.
 
BobDDuck said:
My issue with Southwest (and this has been hashed out before) is that they are constantly in a go go go mood. If I am using a low cost index number I don't want to be told by Center to do 310 or better because Southwest behind me wants to go fast. Sure, I can respond "unable" but that's not the point.

The intersection departure is annoying because when they are allowed to do it they do "cut in front of" everybody else in line. When you are in a lineup for a runway, it's your turn when you get there. ATC is normally a first come first served operation. Just because you are willing to take a point in the runway closer to you shouldn't allow you to get to the front of the takeoff que. Hell, I can take an intersection most of the time too but I don't constantly ask for because I believe in the line principle.

And as far as getting "cut off" under IFR... It's not normally. It's on visual approaches normally where they will just head right to the numbers even if they are number two for the field. BNA is terrible about this. I've had to do 360s a few times now because they end up right in front of us even though they were supposed to be following us.

It happens. I'm not complaining, I'm just commenting.
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If all this is true, ATC isn't doing their jobs. If they're supposed to be following you and wind up in front of you, someone should be dialing a phone number when they get on the ground for blowing their sequence. If they ask for an intersection departure and get it, is it SWA's fault for asking or ATC's for giving it to them? I've gotten priority in LGA before. If we didn't get moved up, we were gonna have to go back to the gate for gas. Guess the ground guy thought it was easier to move us up than try to get us back to the gate since we were in the middle.
 
kellwolf said:
If all this is true, ATC isn't doing their jobs. If they're supposed to be following you and wind up in front of you, someone should be dialing a phone number when they get on the ground for blowing their sequence. If they ask for an intersection departure and get it, is it SWA's fault for asking or ATC's for giving it to them? I've gotten priority in LGA before. If we didn't get moved up, we were gonna have to go back to the gate for gas. Guess the ground guy thought it was easier to move us up than try to get us back to the gate since we were in the middle.
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I don't get paid extra for extra time in the plane. I don't bitch about Southwest; I try to copy them. :D
 
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