Seminole VS Dutchess
- Thread starter Aussie
- Start date
rausda27
Well-Known Member
One is made by Piper and the other by Beechcraft..
?
I dont really think there is much difference..
The seminole has slightly higher Vno and Vne speeds and the Dutchess has a MTOW of 3900 versus 3800 in the Seminole..
They both have counter-rotating 180 hp engines and are both good multi-enigine trainers...
I dont really think there is much difference..
The seminole has slightly higher Vno and Vne speeds and the Dutchess has a MTOW of 3900 versus 3800 in the Seminole..
They both have counter-rotating 180 hp engines and are both good multi-enigine trainers...
Soonermurph
New Member
Actually the Duchess was designed by the same guy who designed the Seminole. That's probably why they look so much alike with many of the same systems.
Besides the two vs one door..... It is really kind of annoying to me to have only one door.
Dutchess has a pressure system vs a vacuum system in a Seminole. But there is no operational difference in how you use the gyros.. They work the same.
The Seminole does not have unfeathering accumulators as I discovered the hard way the first time I feathered the engine in a Seminole... nothing happens when you push the prop lever from feather to full rpm. So the air start procedure is different between the two aircraft. (Maybe the new Seminoles do have unfeathering accumulators, but the old Seminoles do not)
Dutchess has electric prime (nice IMHO), so there's no primer to check in and locked. It makes for an easier engine start.
Seminole manual flaps, Dutchess electric flaps.
8 fuel drains in a Dutchess, 2 for the Seminole.
The following are more "observations" rather than facts.
The pilot in a Dutchess appears to me to sit a little bit higher (a few inches) than in a Seminole (although this might be a personal opinion rather than a actual fact). The aircraft are very similar in physical dimensions.
To me, it seems like the Seminole is very heavy on the controls. You have to "pull" the Seminole off the ground at Vr, whereas the Dutchess just wants to fly at Vr...
Having learned in a Dutchess first, I prefer the Dutchess to a Seminole... I don't know if it would be different if I learned in a Seminole first.
Dutchess has a pressure system vs a vacuum system in a Seminole. But there is no operational difference in how you use the gyros.. They work the same.
The Seminole does not have unfeathering accumulators as I discovered the hard way the first time I feathered the engine in a Seminole... nothing happens when you push the prop lever from feather to full rpm. So the air start procedure is different between the two aircraft. (Maybe the new Seminoles do have unfeathering accumulators, but the old Seminoles do not)
Dutchess has electric prime (nice IMHO), so there's no primer to check in and locked. It makes for an easier engine start.
Seminole manual flaps, Dutchess electric flaps.
8 fuel drains in a Dutchess, 2 for the Seminole.
The following are more "observations" rather than facts.
The pilot in a Dutchess appears to me to sit a little bit higher (a few inches) than in a Seminole (although this might be a personal opinion rather than a actual fact). The aircraft are very similar in physical dimensions.
To me, it seems like the Seminole is very heavy on the controls. You have to "pull" the Seminole off the ground at Vr, whereas the Dutchess just wants to fly at Vr...
Having learned in a Dutchess first, I prefer the Dutchess to a Seminole... I don't know if it would be different if I learned in a Seminole first.
Oh yeah the new Semionals have Carb Heat!!
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system. The travelair had fuel injection and it was built in 65
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system. The travelair had fuel injection and it was built in 65
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah the new Semionals have Carb Heat!!
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system. The travelair had fuel injection and it was built in 65
[/ QUOTE ]
If an airplane engine is carburated it must have carb heat. (unless it never leaves AZ &NM)
The O-360 (& LO-360) used in both airplanes are carburated, mainly because it's cheaper.
Oh yeah the new Semionals have Carb Heat!!
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system. The travelair had fuel injection and it was built in 65
[/ QUOTE ]
If an airplane engine is carburated it must have carb heat. (unless it never leaves AZ &NM)
The O-360 (& LO-360) used in both airplanes are carburated, mainly because it's cheaper.
[ QUOTE ]
If an airplane engine is carburated it must have carb heat. (unless it never leaves AZ &NM)[ QUOTE ]
I was just being sarcastic about the carb heat thing but what was funny was our CFI is like youll never use carb heat down here well... day two a low front moved in and the worst case of carb ice Ive ever had in AZ go figure.
Even the examiner in Nogales was commenting how rare it is....speaking of Nogales anyone ever had the lunch special hambuger down @ the airport there?
If an airplane engine is carburated it must have carb heat. (unless it never leaves AZ &NM)[ QUOTE ]
I was just being sarcastic about the carb heat thing but what was funny was our CFI is like youll never use carb heat down here well... day two a low front moved in and the worst case of carb ice Ive ever had in AZ go figure.
Even the examiner in Nogales was commenting how rare it is....speaking of Nogales anyone ever had the lunch special hambuger down @ the airport there?
flyn_ace_99
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah the new Semionals have Carb Heat!!
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system.
[/ QUOTE ]
A big thing about ATP is maintaining standardization as much as possible. The new seminoles have carbs (like the older ones) and when you have carbs you need carb heat. When all of your planes are virtually the same, maintanence is cheeper and you don't run the risk of one of the students messing up the aircraft because they got into an airplane that operates different. As far as I know, ATP only has 1 Cessna that is fuel injected, and that one tends to be a pain to get going compaired to the other Cessnas.
Anyway... that would be my take on why ATP has Carbs in All thier Seminoles.
Oh yeah the new Semionals have Carb Heat!!
I couldn't figure out when at ATP in PHX they had this new twin with dual 430's etc.... than carb heat. I asked why and the only reason the instructor could come up with is its cheaper to replace or repair a carb than an fuel injection system.
[/ QUOTE ]
A big thing about ATP is maintaining standardization as much as possible. The new seminoles have carbs (like the older ones) and when you have carbs you need carb heat. When all of your planes are virtually the same, maintanence is cheeper and you don't run the risk of one of the students messing up the aircraft because they got into an airplane that operates different. As far as I know, ATP only has 1 Cessna that is fuel injected, and that one tends to be a pain to get going compaired to the other Cessnas.
Anyway... that would be my take on why ATP has Carbs in All thier Seminoles.
pscraig
Well-Known Member
The Seminole has carburetors simply because that's what Piper puts on it...the plane is certified with a carbureted O-360, fuel injection is not an option. I'm not aware of any STC for fuel injection on a Seminole, and anyway it would be just one more thing that could break.
The Seminole does require very heavy control forces, especially the new ones. We call it the ATP workout plan.
The Seminole does require very heavy control forces, especially the new ones. We call it the ATP workout plan.