SEL's in Part 135

spoolinup22

spoolinup22

Well-Known Member
Just got off the phone with a charter service that told me that if it is single engine and on a 135 certificate, the charter flight can only go VFR.

However, looking through charter hub there are places saying that they have approved planes (cessna turbo 210) that are approved for passenger charters in instrument conditions.

Can anyone clear this up?
 
The information you got was incorrect. I am in the final stages of 135 certification with a TBM, and know of several other operators that operate single engine IFR. Check 135.163 (f) for the required equipment for carrying passengers IFR.
 
spoolinup22 said:
Just got off the phone with a charter service that told me that if it is single engine and on a 135 certificate, the charter flight can only go VFR.

However, looking through charter hub there are places saying that they have approved planes (cessna turbo 210) that are approved for passenger charters in instrument conditions.

Can anyone clear this up?
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@Capt. Chaos would beg to differ.
 
That may be in that charter companies ops specs that says they must be vfr. It however is not true that a single engine under 135 must go vfr. Look at Martinaire and flight express, they are both 135's and fly IFR.
 
dufur2003 said:
That may be in that charter companies ops specs that says they must be vfr. It however is not true that a single engine under 135 must go vfr. Look at Martinaire and flight express, they are both 135's and fly IFR.
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Minus the pax seats (lol), these airplanes should be 135 IFR/pax compliant with the standby alternator (it is also required for the known ice package).
 
tiredcfi said:
Minus the pax seats (lol), these airplanes should be 135 IFR/pax compliant with the standby alternator (it is also required for the known ice package).
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That's not true. An autopilot (or SIC) is required for 135 pax, but not for cargo. I'd have to look up the standby altimeter, but none of the FLX (now Airnet) 210s have them.
 
msmspilot said:
That's not true. An autopilot (or SIC) is required for 135 pax, but not for cargo. I'd have to look up the standby altimeter, but none of the FLX (now Airnet) 210s have them.
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I never said anything about an autopilot/sic (though that is pretty straight forward) nor a standby altimeter. For SE 135 IFR with pax, (airframe equipment wise) among other things, you are required to have a second source of electrical power. (i.e. a second alternator that is not standard on a 182, 210, etc.). I know this to be true because I have had to install said alternator in a 182 to allow it to operate under IFR on a 135 cert. The second source of power (its not cheap) is usually what prevents an otherwise compliant airplane from operating under IFR.
 
tiredcfi said:
I never said anything about an autopilot/sic (though that is pretty straight forward) nor a standby altimeter. For SE 135 IFR with pax, (airframe equipment wise) among other things, you are required to have a second source of electrical power. (i.e. a second alternator that is not standard on a 182, 210, etc.). I know this to be true because I have had to install said alternator in a 182 to allow it to operate under IFR on a 135 cert. The second source of power (its not cheap) is usually what prevents an otherwise compliant airplane from operating under IFR.
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Sorry. Read too quickly apparently.

Your statement still reads like the freight planes have to be 135 pax compliant. There are a number of items 135 pax have to have that 135 freight does not. A standby alternator is one of those things. The majority of the 210s that I flew did not have one.
 
msmspilot said:
Sorry. Read too quickly apparently.

Your statement still reads like the freight planes have to be 135 pax compliant. There are a number of items 135 pax have to have that 135 freight does not. A standby alternator is one of those things. The majority of the 210s that I flew did not have one.
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You are right, its not required for freight. It is already there in the 'vans as part of the known ice package.
 
spoolinup22 said:
Just got off the phone with a charter service that told me that if it is single engine and on a 135 certificate, the charter flight can only go VFR.

However, looking through charter hub there are places saying that they have approved planes (cessna turbo 210) that are approved for passenger charters in instrument conditions.

Can anyone clear this up?
Click to expand...

Maybe that particular charter operator isn't approved for IFR flight per their ops specs. The statement that single engine IFR under 135 isn't permitted is just plain wrong though.

Otherwise my company wouldn't be in business.
 
This guy kept saying "if its bad weather then we will have to move you to the baron"

Not sure if he is a shiester and trying to make more $$ or just if his sel isn't IFR 135. I am looking to start brokering some flights for some clients I have up here in Chicago so I'm calling a few places trying to see their policies, etc...
 
spoolinup22 said:
This guy kept saying "if its bad weather then we will have to move you to the baron"

Not sure if he is a shiester and trying to make more $$ or just if his sel isn't IFR 135. I am looking to start brokering some flights for some clients I have up here in Chicago so I'm calling a few places trying to see their policies, etc...
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It's possible that his single isn't known ice, in which case, in the winter it might as well not be IFR.
 
as has been said, it's going to up to the company's FAA approved OpSpecs. And, yes, all of our Pilatii have 2 engines!
 
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