Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Curse you tapatalk.
Seeking Anec-Data (or actual): Cost of Ownership (GA Singles)
- Thread starter killbilly
- Start date
To the OP: the first annual is always the most expensive, unless you had an awesome pre-buy inspection and all the squawks were addressed by the seller. For the planes you mentioned in your first post anticipate the first annual will cost $1,250 - 2,500. By the third annual you will probably be paying $650 - 1,000.
Old avionics inevitably die, usually within the first three months of ownership. Replacing a radio will be around $2,500 for a used KX-155, and at least twice that for a new Garmin if you also need to run new wires and install an antenna.
The first couple of years you will have some extra expenses related to debugging the plane and addressing the things that are important to you. It isn't hard to spend $3,000 a year to correct the things you don't like about the plane. Once you have the irritating things eliminated (around the end of year three) your expenses will drop.
You should expect one moderately expensive repair each year (~$500 - 750). This will be for things like shimmy dampers, vacuum pumps, alternators, or starters. As you would imagine, any repair will be a little more expensive on an older plane, because, just like with an old house, when you start one repair you always discover three additional things that need fixing.
I found that my plane cost me about 15% less than what it would have cost to rent a beater 172 locally. Not a huge savings, and definitely a much higher level of risk since I'd have to foot the bill if the engine needed an early overhaul or the fabric needed an early recover. I met lots of great folks and made a number of memorable trips, so it was definitely worth it.
Old avionics inevitably die, usually within the first three months of ownership. Replacing a radio will be around $2,500 for a used KX-155, and at least twice that for a new Garmin if you also need to run new wires and install an antenna.
The first couple of years you will have some extra expenses related to debugging the plane and addressing the things that are important to you. It isn't hard to spend $3,000 a year to correct the things you don't like about the plane. Once you have the irritating things eliminated (around the end of year three) your expenses will drop.
You should expect one moderately expensive repair each year (~$500 - 750). This will be for things like shimmy dampers, vacuum pumps, alternators, or starters. As you would imagine, any repair will be a little more expensive on an older plane, because, just like with an old house, when you start one repair you always discover three additional things that need fixing.
I found that my plane cost me about 15% less than what it would have cost to rent a beater 172 locally. Not a huge savings, and definitely a much higher level of risk since I'd have to foot the bill if the engine needed an early overhaul or the fabric needed an early recover. I met lots of great folks and made a number of memorable trips, so it was definitely worth it.
KKochan
Well-Known Member
You're right.
It's just that they're so goddamned ugly...
They aren't ugly as a Pacer!
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
@killbill
Depends on the model.
The manual for my engine (O-235-C1 -- 115 hp Lycoming) has a requirement that the valves be adjusted every 100 hrs. Normally done during the annual inspection anyway, but if I fly it more that 100 hrs a year (never) it is something that I have to keep in the back of my mind as requiring additional costs beyond the normal. I don't think the 150hp engines have this requirement.
Lower longerons and the lower frame of the rudder are prone to holding water and thus rusting out over time if they are not properly drained. Something to look at very, very carefully on a pre-buy inspection as the repair costs for those items gets very expensive very fast as the lower frame of the rudder requires recovering the rudder itself while rusted out lower longerons require you to recover the fuselage.
Also beware of cracked and/or broken fuselage "bulkheads". These are generally wooden in the Champion/Bellanca Citabrias. Sometimes people will push on the side of the fuselage when moving the airplane and over time can cause damage. Again... requires a complete recovering of the fuselage to properly repair.
Don't be afraid of a wooden spar Citabria. Especially if there is no damage history. Just make sure that the spars are thoroughly inspected on a pre-buy and be aware that there is an AD requiring reinspection every year. Easily done through existing inspection holes and the type club for the airplane has a detailed procedure if your mechanic is not fully familiar with compression cracks. While on the subject of wings, probably a more serious problem than compression cracks (in my book) are the loss of rib nails. When we recovered mine years back, we discovered we were missing approximately 35% of the original nails holding the ribs to the spars. This had led to some fatigue cracks in a couple of ribs that we had to replace.
How the airplane is covered also makes a difference in yearly costs as well. Older/original fabrics with the Grade A cotton reinforcing tape covered with butyrate dope have a tendency to deteriorate along the cotton tape. Newer Citabrias or those recovered completely in a poly fiber are better and also easier to maintain.
Generally speaking, annual cost for me run in the sub $1000 range, but that is the mark I budget on as some years are really cheap (last year was $400) and others really expensive (2 years ago was $2500 -- tires, brakes, battery, new ELT, tracked down an oil seep, sent prop for overhaul, etc). Overall Citabrias are great little airplanes though. Not much to surprise you maintenance wise if a good pre-buy inspection in done and properly maintained after the purchase.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Afaik none of the bigger Lycs have that as all of them have hydraulic tappets.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
That is what I was thinking. When I worked part time in the maintenance hangar many moons ago, I never got to work on the big Lycomings. I was always helping tinker with the R-985s and 1340s in the shop
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
I have both a Champ and a Citabria. Besides maybe an Ercoupe, I don't think it's possible to fly cheaper than the Champ. She burns 4-5 GPH and there's not much to do on the annuals/100 hours besides borescope, spar inspection and mag points.
I'm willing to sell if interested....
I'm willing to sell if interested....
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Wow. Cool stuff, thanks.
First thing I gotta do is get the bike sold, then get my IR completed...
@ctab5060X, @hook_dupin - would you say your operating costs are lower than $120 an hour or so?
First thing I gotta do is get the bike sold, then get my IR completed...
@ctab5060X, @hook_dupin - would you say your operating costs are lower than $120 an hour or so?
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
As @Plata already posted, there's always a risk of an engine dying early. Ask @ryanmickG You can't really account for this risk.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
How much are you paying in insurance? I had no time in my aircraft and first year was at $100 a month. I only had about 400TT when I got it. It went down after that. I also took care of maintenance and after the first annual never saw more then $1700 for an annual.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
I'm decidedly below that. PM me with an email address, and I can send a spreadsheet history.
My insurance rate a few years ago was $1200/year vice about $900 for a vanilla C-172. I've since moved to commercial insurance to teach tailwheel in it.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Suggest you join the forum at http://bellanca-championclub.com/ and ask about annuals, insurance and such.
Beyond that my friend is buying a Bellanca right now, his first aircraft. I was surprised at what he didn't know about buying an aircraft. I spent weeks reeling him in trying to slow down his purchase. Sure enough there was another aircraft out there that was cheaper, with a new engine and a color he liked.
You can buy a used car on a Saturday but an aircraft purchase is going to take at least 2 weeks.
Beyond that my friend is buying a Bellanca right now, his first aircraft. I was surprised at what he didn't know about buying an aircraft. I spent weeks reeling him in trying to slow down his purchase. Sure enough there was another aircraft out there that was cheaper, with a new engine and a color he liked.
You can buy a used car on a Saturday but an aircraft purchase is going to take at least 2 weeks.
- Get a pre-buy inspection by someone who knows that model of aircraft.
- A $4,000 deposit shouldn't be required for a pre-buy inspection.
- Having the shop who maintained the aircraft do your pre-buy is foolish. That shop is tied to the seller.
- Do a title search, just like when you buy a house.
- Time on engine should affect the price.
- Complete log books are a must.
- Don't get emotionally attached to an aircraft when you're shopping.
- Price is negotiable. He did well on that item.
- AOPA isn't the best place for aircraft insurance.
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alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
I will give a plug for the Taylorcraft. 85-90mph on 4gph, less if you are farting around in the pattern. 65hp versions can be had for about 15-18k. Performance is still pretty good with an A65, couple people and full fuel still break ground in 500 feet. The only negative is if you are big it will be cosy with your wife, but tight with a guy.
