futurepilot1
Well-Known Member
I noticed quite a few freight operators still use 727-200 and DC-10/MD-11s. What is the function of the "Second Officer" ??
Second Officer
- Thread starter futurepilot1
- Start date
Flight engineer. Same/same.
Generally an SO is a pilot who is starting out in the FE seat and awaiting upgrade, just as was normal for the pax airlines not too long ago. A PFE (professional FE) is one who isn't a pilot, but is generally an A&P, who stays permanently as an FE.
futurepilot1
Well-Known Member
Yes, they are FEs. Both are FEs. Second Officer is the historic title generally given to FEs who happen to be pilots.
futurepilot1
Well-Known Member
swisspilot
Well-Known Member
In Miami there is a place where you can be trained for that....
ahw01
Well-Known Member
Some of us are interested in what the flight engineer does, as the last true "owner" of the aircraft, in terms of their in-depth knowledge of airframe and systems. It'd be good to know where is 'good' and where is 'bad' to fine out more...
It sounds like an SO is an FE and a pilot - you can't just put a pilot in the SO seat with no prior qualification (or can you?).
Alex.
It sounds like an SO is an FE and a pilot - you can't just put a pilot in the SO seat with no prior qualification (or can you?).
Alex.
Nope. An FE is a crew position that has to be trained/certificated for, for aircraft requiring one. Check 14 CFR 63 for "Flight Crewmembers other than Pilots" if you're interested in Flight Engineers and Flight Navigators, and their certification requirements. FEs certificates also have Class ratings of Reciprocating, Turboprop, and Turbojet.
Lastly, SO is the title of FEs were were also pilots, generally starting out on the FE seat and awaiting to upgrade. PFEs were FEs who weren't pilots, but who only had an FE certificate and oftentimes an A&P.
PA-44typed
Well-Known Member
Almost all of the cargo airlines us PFEs. It is not that they need very much work done on the road; it is that an A&P can sign the aircraft off to fly home to get the work done. I think FedEx is the only US carrier to still put new pilots in the FE seat. FEs will not be around too much longer as most of the aircraft will be obsolete in a few years. Do not think that getting an FE ticket will help you in anyway. There is an outfit in Miami that will try to tell you otherwise, and try to sell you an FE program for about 6K. A good friend of mine sent his son to do this a few years ago and he got his FE ticket and never found work. Most of the carriers that use FE’s want an A&P. These airlines will pay for the FE once hired. SO DO NOT GO TO AEROSERVICES and buy an FE ticket.
FXMXC
Well-Known Member
FedEx to my knowledge has never used PFE's professional flight engineers. They only hire pilots for the FE seat..Also the only a/c left in the fleet that uses an FE is the 727's which being retired. I do believe UPS has used them in the past but as they parked the last of their DC-8's they no longer have any a/c that have FE positions..It is a dying breed..About the only place outside the military is the older cargo outfits that still fly DC-10's and 727's..
Are all of UPSs 747s gone too?
febtober29
Well-Known Member
all of the classics are gone, now its only -400s so no FE
ahw01
Well-Known Member
I noticed from the FAA ATP Written Prep that one of the captain/FO has to be able to perform the duties of the FE in case of incapacitation.
Also, FEs are required on all 80,000lb+ MTOW planes certified before 1963, and dependent on their inclusion on a type certificate after 1963.
Are there any 80,000lb+ aircraft from the late 50s still flying - surely there are some a/c (outside of the usually quoted 727, 747, DC-8, DC-10) which require FEs also?
Alex.
Also, FEs are required on all 80,000lb+ MTOW planes certified before 1963, and dependent on their inclusion on a type certificate after 1963.
Are there any 80,000lb+ aircraft from the late 50s still flying - surely there are some a/c (outside of the usually quoted 727, 747, DC-8, DC-10) which require FEs also?
Alex.
pilot4500
IT Architect/ Former Cirrus Charter Pilot
I think there are a few foreign carriers that still fly the Boeing 707, mostly in the African countries.
