ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Why does everyone always think that changes must be made to just pilot related things??
SeaPort Airlines.....
- Thread starter flyguy25
- Start date
Why does everyone always think that changes must be made to just pilot related things??
NewYorkophile
Fly Casual
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
A company that doesn't bid on new flying fully knowing they don't have the airframes or the pilots to fulfill the contract...
A company that markets effectively enough so that flights aren't going out empty on a regular basis...
Just to name a few.
And it's not just SeaPort doing these things either...
NewYorkophile
Fly Casual
Isn't that the nature of the EAS contract though? I've heard that problem across other subsidized flying as well.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Thus why EAS flying is probably going to go away at sometime.
While there have been some questionable EAS defunding for some cities (x equals minimum number of enplanements needed when airline is only allowed y number of seats -- and x>y), most of the times, the airlines simply shoot themselves in the foot. Either through lack of effective marketing or not enough planes/crews to effectively serve the market (thus creating an "unreliable" impression among customers), or both.
After spending several years of doing almost exclusively EAS flying, I can see why the government thinks the program is a waste of money. That being said, I believe that there are still areas that are well served under the EAS program.
I think we'd all be behind that. We all love flying or we wouldn't do it to begin with, but we can't seem to be satisfied by the means of which supports it. Personally, I have a great job that satisfies me financially and doesn't involve flying, so I do that on the side for personal fulfillment. Would I rather be flying than sitting in an office? Obviously, but there's a tradeoff.
My point is, I think the unity comes when us pilots do what we love, flying, but leave out the things we give up (job, money, family, etc.) to make that happen. Those are tough tradeoffs for sure, but maybe it brings us together.
Beep
Well-Known Member
It's ok @Roger Roger , I still think you are a swell guy!
Tram
Well-Known Member
Are you married? If so, would you consider yourself and your wife unified? Do you agree on everything?
wingman-flyer
New Member
This post is so ridiculous that I'm guessing you must be management posing as a line pilot. The reason I must post anonymously is for fear of what SeaPort's CP might do to any future PRIA requests. He's screwed guys over on numerous occasions by putting stuff in their file.
Bold is quoted from @av8tr1 post:
1. Some of our aircraft autopilots aren't working at the moment so that makes the company a horrible place?
1. Autopilots not working don't make the company a terrible place to work. After all, we are in the business of flying airplanes. What the problem is is when the president sends an email saying that any future write-ups will result in the autopilot being "decommissioned". He said they're too expensive to fix. Some of the pilots suggested we spend the money to buy the equipment to fix them in house. This was shot down with no good reason given. We also brought up the issue of this potentially being a safety issue. You know, flying 8 hour days in IMC on reduced rest. His response? I flew cargo single pilot many times without an autopilot, so you guys should do it too.
2. Supposedly one of our employees made a mistake that had nothing to do with the company (Mind you I am not defending the practice of driving while drunk, that is a major issue) but somehow that makes the company a horrible place to work.
Not sure about this... I think everyone is just saying that a pilot who spends any long amount of time here only does because they can't go anywhere else due to a "history".
3. We are in need of pilots like everyone else in the industry so that makes us a horrible place to work.
No, doesn't make us a bad place to work. When management bites off more than they can chew and mistreats their pilots, the pilots leave at the first opportunity they can.
4. We are so short of pilots we are having to cancel flights (yet still pay our pilots for the flight they didn't fly!) and that makes us a horrible place to fly.
That's totally untrue and false. SeaPort DOES NOT pay pilots for canceled flights. Ask all the FO's only making min guarantee because they only fly 40-50 hours a month due to a lack of captains. Captains are not paid for canceled flights either. Where did you come up with that?! Oh, and when they do cancel flights, many times dispatch doesn't notify the crew and they still end up showing up to the airport ready to fly. Gotta love spending money on gas or jumpseating in, only to find you won't be flying or getting paid.
4. We give low time pilots their first real opportunity to fly professionally outside of the airport pattern but that makes us a horrible place?
Who said that?
5. We don't move at warp 5 for hiring and training said pilots so that makes us a horrible place to work.
Yes, that does make us a horrible place to work. I personally know one pilot who went through ground and then waited 6 months for flight training. He kept getting the run around and for some reason, they didn't want to train him. He finally decided to move on and is now much happier. I know they've had many (well over 15) pilots waiting months for flight training and they weren't getting paid at all while they were waiting. Now I know, you can expect a company this small to pay pilots to sit around, but making guys wait months and months?? Come on!
6. We only fly single engine aircraft so that makes us a horrible place to fly.
I don't think anybody made that argument. We fly Caravans. It is what it is.
7. We fly our pilots somewhere between 80-116 hours a month so that makes us a horrible place to work for
No, that's not bad. What's bad is when the company refuses to honor any PTO request whatsoever. You work your but off and accrue paid time off and can't even use it. Doesn't sound fair, does it?
What other stupid crap was mentioned here.....
SeaPort isn't perfect but it does have a management team that cares about its employees. Our Chief Pilot is the best manager I have ever had (I'm 44 years old started flying in the early 90s so I have had a lot of bosses to know the good from the bad). He actually cares about his pilots and goes out of his way to support them and make sure they have all they need to do the job. Yes even the two knuckle heads who geared up one of our PC12s. Our CP did everything he could to support those two who did everything they could to get fired.
I about LOL'ed at this one. I don't know what SP you're working for, but I almost think we're talking about different places. Management doesn't care about it's employees and it's been show over and over again. They throw you under the bus for any little thing. Pilots get disciplinary letters in their files when the company was in the wrong and that's just so the company can try and protect themselves from heat that they might get from the FAA. Instead of being put in a hotel, pilots have to stay in filthy apartments, some of which don't even have Internet or TV. If a plane breaks down and we get stuck in a city that's not an overnight, they constantly try to put 2 pilots to a room. That's a constant fight. Dispatch is always trying to assign illegal trips and it's the pilot's job to catch it. Also, trips are build to not give pilots a break or even time to eat lunch or dinner. You have to eat your PB&J in the plane while the pax watch. I could go on and on...
In short, in my time here, I have NEVER seen Noel or Rob ever flight for one of the pilots.
We have a great program and opportunity for new pilots who don't have 1500 hours. We pay better than a CFI job would. And we have a lot of great stuff in the works.We are buying another airline (possibly two), our owner is negotiating to buy another company that will bring twin engine jets with seating capacity over 20 passengers to our fleet (yes there may be SeaPort flight attendant openings by the end of the year), we have a flow through agreement starting soon where our pilots will be able to move on to bigger and better things in the future (and no I can't tell you who it is yet), and we are expanding our route system.
We are buying another airline, eh? LOL! You might want to do some research on that company. The "airline" that the FAA almost pulled their 121 cert. because of the blatant disregard for the law. Just google it... you'll find it. Oh yeah, so SP is going to buy a new airline, but they can't even afford to fix their autopilots or pay their pilots per-diem checks? Guys are waiting months to get their per-diem checks. Hmmm.... OK...
But if a few pilots want to get on here and whine about the fact that they actually have to do the job they get paid to do (you know actually fly planes instead of letting the computer do it for our 1 or 2 hour flights). Put on your big boy pants and try to get some perspective. Ground school gives you all the info you need to fly legally here. You won't be fired for following the rules. And even then we have a great ASAP safety program with FAA that has allowed pilots in the past to make mistakes that elsewhere would be a certificate action but here is a training opportunity and continued opportunity to fly the line. There are very few 135 operators who have that sort of arrangement.
Again, where have any pilots been complaining here about having to fly?
It blows my mind that we have pilots here who are actually complaining that they "have to fly so much" You're not flying over 120 hours in a month. Our pilots actually have it pretty good. And guess what. They are FLYING. If I ever get to the point where I am complaining about my job flying just go ahead and put a fork in me, I am done. Go get a real job and spend 180 hours a week in a cubicle filling out WENIS reports, then come tell me your flying job sucks.
I'm curious to know where you're flying. Many guys (captains and FO's) in the mid south timing out every month for flying 120 hours. It's not too bad to do it for a month or two, but when you can't get any PTO requests honored and can never get a vacation, it gets old real quick. You know, it's funny. The flying is actually what most everyone doesn't complain about. Yeah, it's a lot, but we still always have fun flying and enjoy the Caravan. Once you get away from base, it's not bad. The vast majority of the pilots here are great guys and I love working and flying with them.
SeaPort is a great place to work. We aren't perfect but you'll be hard pressed to find a better outfit at this level to work for.
This used to be the case, but not anymore!
[/QUOTE]
Bold is quoted from @av8tr1 post:
1. Some of our aircraft autopilots aren't working at the moment so that makes the company a horrible place?
1. Autopilots not working don't make the company a terrible place to work. After all, we are in the business of flying airplanes. What the problem is is when the president sends an email saying that any future write-ups will result in the autopilot being "decommissioned". He said they're too expensive to fix. Some of the pilots suggested we spend the money to buy the equipment to fix them in house. This was shot down with no good reason given. We also brought up the issue of this potentially being a safety issue. You know, flying 8 hour days in IMC on reduced rest. His response? I flew cargo single pilot many times without an autopilot, so you guys should do it too.
2. Supposedly one of our employees made a mistake that had nothing to do with the company (Mind you I am not defending the practice of driving while drunk, that is a major issue) but somehow that makes the company a horrible place to work.
Not sure about this... I think everyone is just saying that a pilot who spends any long amount of time here only does because they can't go anywhere else due to a "history".
3. We are in need of pilots like everyone else in the industry so that makes us a horrible place to work.
No, doesn't make us a bad place to work. When management bites off more than they can chew and mistreats their pilots, the pilots leave at the first opportunity they can.
4. We are so short of pilots we are having to cancel flights (yet still pay our pilots for the flight they didn't fly!) and that makes us a horrible place to fly.
That's totally untrue and false. SeaPort DOES NOT pay pilots for canceled flights. Ask all the FO's only making min guarantee because they only fly 40-50 hours a month due to a lack of captains. Captains are not paid for canceled flights either. Where did you come up with that?! Oh, and when they do cancel flights, many times dispatch doesn't notify the crew and they still end up showing up to the airport ready to fly. Gotta love spending money on gas or jumpseating in, only to find you won't be flying or getting paid.
4. We give low time pilots their first real opportunity to fly professionally outside of the airport pattern but that makes us a horrible place?
Who said that?
5. We don't move at warp 5 for hiring and training said pilots so that makes us a horrible place to work.
Yes, that does make us a horrible place to work. I personally know one pilot who went through ground and then waited 6 months for flight training. He kept getting the run around and for some reason, they didn't want to train him. He finally decided to move on and is now much happier. I know they've had many (well over 15) pilots waiting months for flight training and they weren't getting paid at all while they were waiting. Now I know, you can expect a company this small to pay pilots to sit around, but making guys wait months and months?? Come on!
6. We only fly single engine aircraft so that makes us a horrible place to fly.
I don't think anybody made that argument. We fly Caravans. It is what it is.
7. We fly our pilots somewhere between 80-116 hours a month so that makes us a horrible place to work for
No, that's not bad. What's bad is when the company refuses to honor any PTO request whatsoever. You work your but off and accrue paid time off and can't even use it. Doesn't sound fair, does it?
What other stupid crap was mentioned here.....
SeaPort isn't perfect but it does have a management team that cares about its employees. Our Chief Pilot is the best manager I have ever had (I'm 44 years old started flying in the early 90s so I have had a lot of bosses to know the good from the bad). He actually cares about his pilots and goes out of his way to support them and make sure they have all they need to do the job. Yes even the two knuckle heads who geared up one of our PC12s. Our CP did everything he could to support those two who did everything they could to get fired.
I about LOL'ed at this one. I don't know what SP you're working for, but I almost think we're talking about different places. Management doesn't care about it's employees and it's been show over and over again. They throw you under the bus for any little thing. Pilots get disciplinary letters in their files when the company was in the wrong and that's just so the company can try and protect themselves from heat that they might get from the FAA. Instead of being put in a hotel, pilots have to stay in filthy apartments, some of which don't even have Internet or TV. If a plane breaks down and we get stuck in a city that's not an overnight, they constantly try to put 2 pilots to a room. That's a constant fight. Dispatch is always trying to assign illegal trips and it's the pilot's job to catch it. Also, trips are build to not give pilots a break or even time to eat lunch or dinner. You have to eat your PB&J in the plane while the pax watch. I could go on and on...
In short, in my time here, I have NEVER seen Noel or Rob ever flight for one of the pilots.
We have a great program and opportunity for new pilots who don't have 1500 hours. We pay better than a CFI job would. And we have a lot of great stuff in the works.We are buying another airline (possibly two), our owner is negotiating to buy another company that will bring twin engine jets with seating capacity over 20 passengers to our fleet (yes there may be SeaPort flight attendant openings by the end of the year), we have a flow through agreement starting soon where our pilots will be able to move on to bigger and better things in the future (and no I can't tell you who it is yet), and we are expanding our route system.
We are buying another airline, eh? LOL! You might want to do some research on that company. The "airline" that the FAA almost pulled their 121 cert. because of the blatant disregard for the law. Just google it... you'll find it. Oh yeah, so SP is going to buy a new airline, but they can't even afford to fix their autopilots or pay their pilots per-diem checks? Guys are waiting months to get their per-diem checks. Hmmm.... OK...
But if a few pilots want to get on here and whine about the fact that they actually have to do the job they get paid to do (you know actually fly planes instead of letting the computer do it for our 1 or 2 hour flights). Put on your big boy pants and try to get some perspective. Ground school gives you all the info you need to fly legally here. You won't be fired for following the rules. And even then we have a great ASAP safety program with FAA that has allowed pilots in the past to make mistakes that elsewhere would be a certificate action but here is a training opportunity and continued opportunity to fly the line. There are very few 135 operators who have that sort of arrangement.
Again, where have any pilots been complaining here about having to fly?
It blows my mind that we have pilots here who are actually complaining that they "have to fly so much" You're not flying over 120 hours in a month. Our pilots actually have it pretty good. And guess what. They are FLYING. If I ever get to the point where I am complaining about my job flying just go ahead and put a fork in me, I am done. Go get a real job and spend 180 hours a week in a cubicle filling out WENIS reports, then come tell me your flying job sucks.
I'm curious to know where you're flying. Many guys (captains and FO's) in the mid south timing out every month for flying 120 hours. It's not too bad to do it for a month or two, but when you can't get any PTO requests honored and can never get a vacation, it gets old real quick. You know, it's funny. The flying is actually what most everyone doesn't complain about. Yeah, it's a lot, but we still always have fun flying and enjoy the Caravan. Once you get away from base, it's not bad. The vast majority of the pilots here are great guys and I love working and flying with them.
SeaPort is a great place to work. We aren't perfect but you'll be hard pressed to find a better outfit at this level to work for.
This used to be the case, but not anymore!
[/QUOTE]
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Is helping newbies getting into arguments against a current employee who is actually happy with his job (@av8tr1)? Maybe you aren't helping newbies but instead raining on a parade of people who know what they want.
Keep in mind that we are all pilots with different personalities and wants. Your views are not always correct in the eyes of others. When I first started flying I thought people were absolutely stupid for not wanting a career in the airlines or corporate world....but one of the first levels of maturity is understanding that everybody is different. Also, from my perspective, how is captains leaving a valid argument that Seaport is so awful? I'd say for a huge majority of pilots that Caravans aren't the top of the career podium. With pilots leaving all of these small 135's, regionals, and flight schools, it's not because of poor management or a poor company but maybe to advance their career towards their dreams?
I could be wrong too but that's the pointless part of the argument. Acting like you know why people are leaving a company? If you think your argument is valid then you must argue against pilots going to regionals also? They're losing captains and FO's left and right so it must be poor company, QOL, and management.... am I correct?
Before you start a fight to tell someone to put down their Kool-Aid, maybe you should understand that some people like that Kool-Aid. You aren't Batman here to save the day by raining on a party of people who like that flavor of Kool-Aid. We're all different.
Can we all get along now?
Tram
Well-Known Member
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Lots of life timer regional pilots out there who love their QOL and seniority. They take the paycut for it but don't want to upgrade or even move onto a major and start over again.
Shocker isn't it? How stupid are those guys? Let's argue about who's better and smarter.
I wasn't even defending regionals as a life time location either, just proving a point that you may as well argue to young kids to not go to regionals either. Go get your PIC turbine time somewhere else right?
M20B_pilot
Well-Known Member
Wow! @ctab5060X is trying to paint a realistic picture of the way things are at SeaPort, and you guys bash him! Unreal!
@av8tr1 does have a certain view of SeaPort and it must be looking out from the PDX base. Things in Memphis (the junior base where most everyone goes) are MUCH DIFFERENT than in Portland!! Things are not rosy around here, not even close! There's a reason pilots are leaving like crazy and it's not to fly a shiny jet! Everyone trying to defend SeaPort has no idea of the goings on and horrible morale that everyone, from the pilots to the customer service agents to the mechanics are experiencing right now. Again, there are some major problems, at least in Memphis. Morale is much different that when I started here.
I recommend anyone looking to come here please PM me and I can pass along some info.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Nobody is personally bashing anyone. I'm not defending Seaport just merely defending that people have different views. Instead of coming online and arguing about how terrible a small 135 op is, maybe you should think about another perspective or personality other than your own.
Now it's not Seaport as a whole but the MEM base. PDX base is good?
Tram
Well-Known Member
No. It's perfect.
10 years as a gate agent, I'd say you might as well put that on your resume. You'll be hired in no time.
You have it all completely figure out. Probably even get to skip OE.
Go forth and conquer!
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
No. It's perfect.
10 years as a gate agent, I'd say you might as well put that on your resume. You'll be hired in no time.
You have it all completely figure out. Probably even get to skip OE.
Go forth and conquer!
So you decided to take this the personal route against me?
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Well said @tcco94
I have ZERO desire to go to the big airlines. I am very happy flying the Van. This morning I got to chose how I went back to the airport. Got to fly by some great views. Followed the river west and my passengers got some great pictures of the Oregon countryside. Last week we were able to give our sole passenger a tour of the Dallies. 3 weeks ago I flew one of our Vans up to Alaska with the base chief pilot. Spent most of the trip looking at views of the stars most people never get to see. Actually saw the blue arm of the milky way. Then sun rise as we pulled into JNU was just unbelievably beautiful. Not going to be able to do that at Delta or United.
I love my job!!!
I can easily see myself spending my career here at SeaPort (and no I don't have any DUIs or criminal activity in my past). I've done the hustle and bustle of the big office and power lunches. I don't want to do it any more. At the same time I will not begrudge anyone who wants to move up the chain to bigger and more responsibility at a larger airline. There was a time I felt that way too. But I will leave this thread with the following story so that those that think a career with a 135 is a dead end can see my point of view.....
--------------------------
An investment banker stood at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The banker complimented the fisherman on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The fisherman replied, “Only a little while.”
The banker then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?
The fisherman said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.
The banker then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.”
The investor scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats.
“The investor continued, “And instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would then sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution! You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”
The fisherman asked, “But how long will this all take?”
To which the banker replied, “Perhaps 15 to 20 years.”
“But what then?” asked the fisherman.
The banker laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions!”
“Millions. Okay, then what?” wondered the fisherman.
To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
-------------------------------------------
Perspective.....it's a beautiful thing.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Good grief, stop saying "PM me, I have super secret squirrel stuff to share". What is this elementary school? If you really have an issue that you think any potential SeaPort pilot needs to hear put it out there. Don't hide behind vague comments and click bait.
Rob (SeaPorts CEO) will gladly listen to any complaints you might have. He just sent out a company wide email addressing two letters he got from fellow pilots. Rob is a good guy and will resolve problems for you if you communicate with him.
But if there are problems don't come on here and elude to them without being specific. Say it publicly or don't say anything at all. You don't have to work at SeaPort, you aren't a slave. You can move on if you don't like it.
And yes I am a PDX pilot.
M20B_pilot
Well-Known Member
Nobody is personally bashing anyone. I'm not defending Seaport just merely defending that people have different views. Instead of coming online and arguing about how terrible a small 135 op is, maybe you should think about another perspective or personality other than your own.
Now it's not Seaport as a whole but the MEM base. PDX base is good?
The MEM base has been the base with the majority of the problems. That's because the PDX base has been flying the same 3 routes with pretty much the same planes for years. It hasn't experienced the growth of the MEM base. Therefore, yes, the MEM base is where the majority of the problems are. None of the other bases are doing anywhere near the flying MEM does and it's put a huge strain on everybody. Again, it's not just the pilots either. No work group here in MEM is getting the resources they need to do their jobs. Everybody is busting their butts, things are getting worse and there's no let up in sight.
And please don't post that little quip with the rolling eyes, like all of the sudden I've changed my tune.
Tram
Well-Known Member
So you decided to take this the personal route against me?
Did I? I have nothing personal against you.
I thought I just stated the facts as you presented them.
You know what life is like a a regional because you worked as a gate agent for 10 years? Isn't that what you said?
Your passive aggression is cute.. See what I did there?
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