Scrutiny of Gulfstream Intensifies

[Polar742]

Interesting, but there is no TCAS in most military planes.

I did not know that.

I was thinking more along the lines of a 1900/Metro/SAAB...

 

[MFT1Air]

How many of you have so many experiences landing at non controlled fields with people who refuse to talk on the radio or use a traffic pattern you take a little offense to the notion a captain erring on the side of caution is a firing offense?

*raises hand*

. . .and it's the cocky aerobatic "wannabes" who cut the pattern without saying a word. . .and they do it often.

 

[mjg407]

I did not know that.

I was thinking more along the lines of a 1900/Metro/SAAB...

I was an advocate for putting it on the mighty orion. Flying around "Due Regard" at FL270 it would be nice to know where the big boys were at. But also when flying inconus, you had to file and fly IFR to the maximum extent possible.

 

[wheelsup]

Once I was in Kansas City, and for some reason all the high altitude routes to Washington National were ground stopped. The dispatcher asked if I wanted to go at 10,000 ft because we could leave right then. I said no, and we had working TCAS.

My guess is the mechanic did an "ops check good" on the thing and pencil whipped it. That is why he was refusing to fly.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

TCAS is not required on the 1900, in fact on Mesa 1900s we only have/had TIS.

 

[granlistillo]

Interesting, but there is no TCAS in most military planes.

Out flying Due Regard, if I had a Link 11 display or an operative Big Look with the SSR, I wouldn't hesistate to let the flight deck know someone was out there.
We has a Skipper that told the wardroom he thought we would end up hitting someone over Bosnia too.

 

[granlistillo]

TCAS is not required on the 1900, in fact on Mesa 1900s we only have/had TIS.

Ugh... TIS datalink coverage is spotty at best and is getting decommisioned as they upgrade radar sites.

 

[granlistillo]

*shrug* Florida isn't the best place to be be-bopping around without a TCAS. Of course, if Center clears out a whole MOA/restricted area for you I suppose it's tough to relate.

Quick show of hands. Who has landed more than once at an uncontrolled airport with passengers when people in the pattern are not position reporting or responding to a single radio call?

*raises hand*

Furthermore, of those raising your hands, who has actually been admonished by the GA dummy for trying to talk to them directly while they are on the ground holding short of the opposite runway you are 500' to touch on? "It's an uncontrolled field I don't have to talk to anyone if I don't want to!"

*raises hand*

How many of you have so many experiences landing at non controlled fields with people who refuse to talk on the radio or use a traffic pattern you take a little offense to the notion a captain erring on the side of caution is a firing offense?

*raises hand*

1 and 3 hand raised. The guy in #2 needs a smackdown. If a poll was taken most guys would be the same I think.

 

[jynxyjoe]

1 and 3 hand raised. The guy in #2 needs a smackdown. If a poll was taken most guys would be the same I think.

Yeah, one of the instructors down in Hattiesburg MS. At least I think he's an instructor.

 

[mjg407]

Ugh... TIS datalink coverage is spotty at best and is getting decommisioned as they upgrade radar sites.

Yeah but in the slicks we didn't have all the cool gee whiz stuff. Also think about all the Piltras.

 

[mjg407]

*shrug* Florida isn't the best place to be be-bopping around without a TCAS. Of course, if Center clears out a whole MOA/restricted area for you I suppose it's tough to relate.

Quick show of hands. Who has landed more than once at an uncontrolled airport with passengers when people in the pattern are not position reporting or responding to a single radio call?

*raises hand*

Furthermore, of those raising your hands, who has actually been admonished by the GA dummy for trying to talk to them directly while they are on the ground holding short of the opposite runway you are 500' to touch on? "It's an uncontrolled field I don't have to talk to anyone if I don't want to!"

*raises hand*

How many of you have so many experiences landing at non controlled fields with people who refuse to talk on the radio or use a traffic pattern you take a little offense to the notion a captain erring on the side of caution is a firing offense?

*raises hand*

Of course they may not have their transponder on either......

 

[granlistillo]

Of course they may not have their transponder on either......

I just love going into PGV Pitt Greenville NC on a sunny Saturday afternoon with all the bug smashers. Put the TCAS into below mode descending into the terminal area, and seeing all targets in a scattergram around the field. Some real light stuff that may not even have mode c transponder installed let alone on. Had a genius in a cub take the runway when we were less than 2 mile final. He made it off okay but just barely.

I wonder what his last thoughts would have been when he rolled on his back shortly after takeoff from our wake turbulence when we go scorching by at go around power 200 ft off the deck???

 

[jynxyjoe]

Of course they may not have their transponder on either......

That's been said at least twice now.

Sounds like resignation to me.

It's not worth getting the equipment working because it's possible that a pilot may not have his xponder on or equipped? I guess if thats how you see it that is fine, your airplane you run it your way. My experience has been overwhelmingly the opposite.

 

[granlistillo]

That's been said at least twice now.

Sounds like resignation to me.

It's not worth getting the equipment working because it's possible that a pilot may not have his xponder on or equipped? I guess if thats how you see it that is fine, your airplane you run it your way. My experience has been overwhelmingly the opposite.

He is not saying that at all. He flys a plane that doesn't have it, and he tried to get it (advocated it) when he flew it in the fleet.

 

[jynxyjoe]

He is not saying that at all. He flys a plane that doesn't have it, and he tried to get it (advocated it) when he flew it in the fleet.

ah. I haven't been paying close enough attention. I apologize.

 

[mjg407]

That's been said at least twice now.

Sounds like resignation to me.

It's not worth getting the equipment working because it's possible that a pilot may not have his xponder on or equipped? I guess if thats how you see it that is fine, your airplane you run it your way. My experience has been overwhelmingly the opposite.

Nope, I was just adding that the guy who refuses to talk at an uncontrolled field is most likely the same kind of buffoon who doesn't turn on their transponder.

 

[georgetg]

With TCAS working on both AC this would not have happened

Brand new Embraer Legacy under ATC control:

2 month old 737 under ATC control:

Story here

There is a reason we have TCAS...

Cheers
George

 

[mikecweb]

Not trying to open up a whole can of worms but why doesn't it matter how many people are a on board?

 

[kellwolf]

My guess is the mechanic did an "ops check good" on the thing and pencil whipped it. That is why he was refusing to fly.

:yeahthat:

"Ops check good. Could not duplicate on the ground."

Kinda hard to duplicate TCAS on the ground. I know ours is gonna be in TA ONLY mode for one, and you can't really get an RA. MX probably hit the "TCAS test" button, heard "TCAS Test.....ok" and said "Yep, it's good."

 

[MikeD]

With TCAS working on both AC this would not have happened

Brand new Embraer Legacy under ATC control:

2 month old 737 under ATC control:

Story here

There is a reason we have TCAS...

Cheers
George

Heck, you could say that for any and every midair that's ever happened in the past 20+ years. Though I think TCAS is a great system, to me it's only a tool in the box. It's not a required tool (unless in the MEL).....if I don't have it for whatever reason, I'll try to get a replacement, or otherwise use substitute tools in its place (Mk1 eyeballs). I'm still a believer that VFR can be accomplished safely without TCAS, as I think too many pilots today "grew up" with a TCAS and have been given the impression that having an inop TCAS is akin to having an inop engine. To them, VFR without a TCAS constitutes a near "emergency" situation.