Scenario Based Training

[Shane Cassell]

I'm a new CFI and I'm trying to incorporate scenario based training into my flight lessons, but I'm having a hard time finding ways to build a scenario around things like stalls or ground reference maneuvers, etc. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas they wouldn't mind sharing?

 

[bkey79]

Remember, you are teaching how to recover from stalls, not necessarily how to stall an aircraft.

Power off stalls are supposed to represent an aircraft on final, landing configuration. Imagine being slow, dirty and never adding power and starting to come up short. Pilot starts to panic and pulls back on the elevator inducing a stall.

Power on stalls are meant to represent a stall on take-off. Either trim could be set too far aft (which would be a trim stall) or something makes the pilot panic on take off and yank the controls aft, inducing a stall.

So with that, one of the way private pilots wad up a plane is base to final stall/spin. Pilot is dirty and slow, shoots through final and tries to help the turn by not only making an aggressive turn, but adding too much rudder. AOA exceeds max while uncoordinated and plane enters a stall/spin.

Again, the purpose of doing stall training is to learn how to properly recover from a stall, not how to stall an aircraft.

 

[PropSettin']

My school is big on SBT, i generally skip it and focus solely on maneuver based training for all the pre-solo stuff and then incorporate SBT into the cross country and checkride prep phase. Its kind of alot for a brand new student first couple flights, they just need to know which way is up down left and right... not the "hey so were gonna be flying over grandmas house surveying her corn field" BS

 

[n57flyguy]

Idea: How about a rectangular course at a higher altitude to a full stall "landing" then recovery (go around) then a few more times with stall and recovery from different points on final?

 

[RumpleTumbler]

During slow flight elbow your student in the gut while simultaneously grabbing a handful of hair, yanking their head back and dousing their eyeballs with Texas Pete. Throw a handful of sand on top of that and then ask to see their chart revision dates.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

My school is big on SBT, i generally skip it and focus solely on maneuver based training for all the pre-solo stuff and then incorporate SBT into the cross country and checkride prep phase. Its kind of alot for a brand new student first couple flights, they just need to know which way is up down left and right... not the "hey so were gonna be flying over grandmas house surveying her corn field" BS

Yes.

I'm not too sure about the "cornfield BS" though. I've done "turns about a sunken battleship" on vacation and been asked to circle around a geographic marker awaiting a Class D entry, and have had students survey an off-airport landing site for a diversion. So ground reference maneuvers can be incorporated into those cross countries pretty easily.

 

[Adler]

I've heard of schools saying "Ok, you're flying a photographer. He wants to take pictures of local farms. You should probably do turns around a point so he can get them done".

In more complex tasks like 121 stuff, I love SBT; but for private pilot maneuvers I think you'd be better off without the BS and just go practice. That being said, I can see how it would be very beneficial in the final days of ground review before a checkride. You're doing a x-country from here to there. Plan it. What kind of weather do you need here, what about there, fuel reserves? You're flying and right here your oil pressure drops...etc

 

[thevideographer]

What's funny is when (as a student) you get the same diversion scenario from 5 different instructors and a few stage check pilots.

 

[n57flyguy]

Yes.

I'm not too sure about the "cornfield BS" though. I've done "turns about a sunken battleship" on vacation and been asked to circle around a geographic marker awaiting a Class D entry, and have had students survey an off-airport landing site for a diversion. So ground reference maneuvers can be incorporated into those cross countries pretty easily.

Which reminds me, did they take accelerated stalls out of the Private PTS, after adding them? I 'heard' that was going to happen.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Which reminds me, did they take accelerated stalls out of the Private PTS, after adding them? I 'heard' that was going to happen.

I think that was done about 2 years ago. I haven't done primary training in a while, so check a current PTS.

 

[exneophyte]

I've heard of schools saying "Ok, you're flying a photographer. He wants to take pictures of local farms. You should probably do turns around a point so he can get them done".

Until the smart ass student responds, "That sounds suspiciously like a commercial operation to me which as a private pilot I cannot be involved in. You trying to get me into trouble?"

 

[n57flyguy]

I think that was done about 2 years ago. I haven't done primary training in a while, so check a current PTS.

"Lettering Change":

Change 1 (March 12, 2012
and June 22, 2012)
•
Removed Judgment Assessment Matrix
Reason:
Did not apply to this
PTS
•
Removed Task D “Accelerated Stalls” from Area of
Operation VIII
and re-lettered “Spin Awareness” to Task D
on the Examiner’s Practical Test Checklist in Section 1

Now:

Task D:
Spin Awareness (ASEL and ASES)

Objective:
To determine that the applicant exhibits satisfactory knowledge of the elements related to spin awareness by explaining:

1. Aerodynamic factors related to spins.
2. Flight situations where unintentional spins may occur.
3. Procedures for recovery from unintentional spins

Personally, I thought it was a good addition and should have remained.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/FAA-S-8081-14B.pdf

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

"turns about a sunken battleship" on vacation

BTW, lest you think I jest

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Personally, I thought it was a good addition and should have remained.

My guess is that the FAA decided it was better relegated to CFI demonstration than a private task.

There's actually an interesting theory beginning to take root (not with the FAA at this point AFAIK) that stall training has a collateral effect of teaching pilots it's OK to stall rather than teaching to avoid them. And since most unintended stalls happen close to the ground with limited time to recover, that's a bad idea. The way I'm haring it, it's not about the existence of stall training but the way we do it.

 

[n57flyguy]

My guess is that the FAA decided it was better relegated to CFI demonstration than a private task.

There's actually an interesting theory beginning to take root (not with the FAA at this point AFAIK) that stall training has a collateral effect of teaching pilots it's OK to stall rather than teaching to avoid them. And since most unintended stalls happen close to the ground with limited time to recover, that's a bad idea. The way I'm haring it, it's not about the existence of stall training but the way we do it.

Good point, as I prepare for the CFI my mentality is to make safe pilots, and as I pursued my Private, accelerate stalls were shown to me all though it was not a task I would have been required to perform.

Interesting, I have not picked up on that. Then again, I am still in proximity to my grassroots theories of flying the airplane. There has been more than a few times in the airplane where I could see things developing well before I was at the point of worry, but was more aware of of the situation and was comfortable out of the warm chewy center.

 

[thevideographer]

There's actually an interesting theory beginning to take root (not with the FAA at this point AFAIK) that stall training has a collateral effect of teaching pilots it's OK to stall rather than teaching to avoid them. And since most unintended stalls happen close to the ground with limited time to recover, that's a bad idea. The way I'm haring it, it's not about the existence of stall training but the way we do it.

It is okay to stall, as long as you're doing it on purpose. It's really frustrating to fly with a pilot who is afraid of stalls and goes out of their way to avoid them. Training needs to involve enough stalls so that students get comfortable maneuvering the aircraft and learn its limits, and along the way they should figure out how to avoid them.

 

[Caelum Deus]

Everything you teach should be SBT. Thats why we teach.
For stalls you can simulate taking off at 3000 feet AGL and fly a simulated pattern in the air. When turning xwind to downwind pitch up for a stall. Do the same when turning a simulated base to final.
If they can recover without going below 3000 then I shouldnt have a problem being at the airport the day they solo.
Ground maneuvers might be a bit more difficult considering the last and only time I need to do a S turn was for....... a checkride, but you can always go up on a windy and just fly the pattern at 1000 without descending to show the effects of wind.
SBT is the best part of teaching, thats where you get to use your creative abilities to come up with new ways of introducing material. If it wasnt for SBT I would have jumped out a long time ago

 

[jspeed87]

If I remember in the PTS, it says SBT to be recommended for special emphasis areas like.. runway incursions, stall/spin awareness, collision avoidence, CFIT, wake turbulence to name a few. For all other manuevers I would try to be as effective as possible. I want to be like my first CFI who got you done quick, which equals less $$$ spent, but still key on safety points.