Say again? ( Route clearance)

[boondr]

But do we have confirmation that the same deal won't happen as DUATS?

We don't even have confirmation the problem is DUATS. Only thing we know for sure is the HOST computers are POS.

 

[z987k]

But do we have confirmation that the same deal won't happen as DUATS?

Never had the problem described by the OP. If I was given something like that, I'd say something like.... um no/unable.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Never had the problem described by the OP. If I was given something like that, I'd say something like.... um no/unable.

"Roger, Air Carrier 123 is cleared to destination via own terrain separation direct..."

 

[z987k]

"Roger, Air Carrier 123 is cleared to destination via own terrain separation direct..."

Basically.

 

[djackd]

I pretty much always file direct. Its what I want, why the hell should I file for anything else? On the east coast I'm going to get a reroute with each controller along the way anyway, so I typically don't plan on any route other than a general line from point a to point b and hope that the reroutes don't take me too far out of the way.

same here. I've given up trying to plan for exact routes.

 

[Baronpilot244]

This happened to me one time because I filed "direct GPS" in the route section of the flight plan. It will work better if you select "user selected routing" and leave the route block blank. That tells ATC you want radar vectors direct which will do away with all that lat/long stuff.

Bp244

 

[TripSix]

I'm banking on you filed on DUATS.com. A controller I work with is has been working to figure it out for the last 3 plus years. Seems like the route gets spit out in lat longs that have something possibly to do with airspace boundaries and somewhere in the system between you filing and us getting the flight progress strip is just gets changed to the coordinates. We aren't 100% certain why it does. All attempts to pass the info along the FAA "suggestion box" haven't quite fixed it yet. I see it about 8 to 10 times a year and always ask, "you filed DUATS.com didn't you?" The answer is always yes and I always send them direct destination. As to the controller actually issuing you the lat longs, well you can't fix stupid.

Plenty of controllers have no clue how an aviation GPS/FMS/RNAV etc works and some have the attitude of you filed it you fly it. Next time you get that from a controller tell them you filed direct, or what have you, and tell them you have no means to enter in a lat long and that fixes would be required (as you did).

+1. As soon as the OP mentioned a string of lat/long I thought "DUATS strikes again." I would just amend them as direct. Haven't worked in a tower for a few years, sucks this is still an issue...

 

[inigo88]

For the life of me I can't remember where I read this (whether it was something obscure in the 7110.65 or what), but I recall seeing something to the effect that the FAA computer system (FDIO?) wants at least one fix from each ARTCC your route passes through. So hypothetically, I wonder if these funky lat/longs correlate with the points at which your direct routing intersects an ARTCC boundary (and if DUATS is calculating them automatically)? Does this sound familiar to any enroute guys? Sorry if I'm way off on this.

Edit: Just saw genot's post, so I guess there must be some truth to this!

Edit 2: It's mentioned in the "National Route Program," Ch 17 regarding TMU in FAA order 7210.3W.

d. Operators must ensure that the route of flight contains no less than one waypoint, in the FRD format, or NAVAID, per each ARTCC that a direct route segment traverses and these waypoints or NAVAIDs must be located within 200 NM of the preceding ARTCC's boundary. Additional route description fixes for each turning point in the route must be defined.

I thought it was in the AIM too... I'll look for it.

 

[inigo88]

Found it!

http://flyingclubmag.com/aim 2008/c5/s1/aim 2008 c5s1p8.htm

(f) File a minimum of one route description waypoint for each ARTCC through whose area the random route will be flown. These waypoints must be located within 200 NM of the preceding center's boundary.

It goes on to say the coordinates can be in FRD Fix/Radial/Distance or NRS Lat/Long format.

Mystery solved?

 

[z987k]

Found it!

http://flyingclubmag.com/aim 2008/c5/s1/aim 2008 c5s1p8.htm

It goes on to say the coordinates can be in FRD Fix/Radial/Distance or NRS Lat/Long format.

Mystery solved?

Maybe? Was the OP's route jfk DIRECT lax or something similarly dumb?

 

[inigo88]

Maybe? Was the OP's route jfk DIRECT lax or something similarly dumb?

That's sorta what I was guessing. But if you pick a shorter direct route through an area that has a huge intersection of ARTCC boundaries, you never know. I can see Doug Taylor now: "JFK clearance Southernjets 123 request GPS direct LFPG!"

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Found it!

http://flyingclubmag.com/aim 2008/c5/s1/aim 2008 c5s1p8.htm



It goes on to say the coordinates can be in FRD Fix/Radial/Distance or NRS Lat/Long format.

Mystery solved?

You mean, the AIM has something useful to say about aeronautical stuff? Whoa!

Truly, I say to you that you must file your IFR RNAV flight plans in accordance with 5-1-8, for it makes The System work safely, orderly, and expeditiously.