TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Ok, so how about the 7.5% FET?
Save the contract towers
- Thread starter ackeight
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Ok, so how about the 7.5% FET?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
The only thing that creates jobs in the private sector is demand. Taxes don't really have much to do with it (to a point). Case in point..corporate profits are at all time highs, buy they are still not hiring.
Taxes in China are actually higher on a corporate level than here when you account for all our deductions.
Another example, would you actually give up an extra $500,000 (example) in profit just so you don't have to pay $150,000 in tax? Step over dollars much?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pointing that out.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
$75 to $100 for what? Per flight? You are nuts! Most of the tax that comes fuel are FEDERAL, that goes to run things like ATC, and run the FAA inspectors. Seggy I think you are confused, he is not talking about fees for using an airport, we all have to pay that and some people do choose what airport to use accordingly. We are talking about taxes. Specifically the tax for the aircraft and fuel taxes.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
They're scared of what kind of additional financial burdens will be placed on them. Obamacare ring a bell?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Yes per flight.
The airlines subsidize the corporate operators. The small amount of taxes the corporate operators pay do not cover the cost of their services they use. The $75 to $100 per flight will help a little.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
If I'm understanding correctly, commercial operators pay 7.5% on ticket prices, plus $3.90 per head. Non-commercial operations only pay a fuel tax; right now it's $0.218/gallon for jet fuel.
Let's not forget, however, that a commercial operator takes up a lot more of the FAA's time with certification and oversight. So, we'll say that the 7.5% goes towards that. For the most part, non-commercial operators only take up a Fed's time if something goes awry.
The $3.90 per head goes towards infrastructure, as does the $0.218/gallon.
Again, let's go hypothetical; an average corporate jet flies 1.5 hours on a domestic leg. Let's also say that there are 7 poor souls packed in the back of that little Lear 31 (right ZapBrannigan). Burning 175 gallons per hour, that's 262 gallons for that 1.5 hour flight. That's $57 and change in taxes, or a little more than $8 per head.
100LL is a bargain at $0.193/gallon. That Stearman or Cub with no electrical system sure is a burden on the ATC system
To tell me that we don't pay our fair share is quite an absurd statement.
Let's not forget, however, that a commercial operator takes up a lot more of the FAA's time with certification and oversight. So, we'll say that the 7.5% goes towards that. For the most part, non-commercial operators only take up a Fed's time if something goes awry.
The $3.90 per head goes towards infrastructure, as does the $0.218/gallon.
Again, let's go hypothetical; an average corporate jet flies 1.5 hours on a domestic leg. Let's also say that there are 7 poor souls packed in the back of that little Lear 31 (right ZapBrannigan). Burning 175 gallons per hour, that's 262 gallons for that 1.5 hour flight. That's $57 and change in taxes, or a little more than $8 per head.
100LL is a bargain at $0.193/gallon. That Stearman or Cub with no electrical system sure is a burden on the ATC system
To tell me that we don't pay our fair share is quite an absurd statement.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Health coverage scares the crap out of me. It's not only a problem for the uninsured but also the insured as hospitals buy up each other/merge and reduce the bargaining power of the health insurance companies, raising premiums for everyone.
This is a really, really long article, but well worth the time and energy:
http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure commercial operators pay a fuel tax. Plus they pay liquor taxes, landing fees, bring in tax revenue from the passengers shopping at the airports, etc.
Non-Commercial operators are also ramped checked, the maintenance shop they bring their plane to is subjective to FAA oversight, and they use the same, if not more resources with enroute FAA Facilities, brining a Flight Check Airplane to podunkville to tune the ILS, Terminal VORs, etc. You forgot quite a few things here infrastructure wise.
The $3.90 per head goes towards infrastructure, as does the $0.218/gallon.
See above.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
So do we, when we buy it for stock. Not sure how that relates to FAA funding, however.
So do we
And that pays for ATC how?
Which takes all of 4 minutes
Yep, taxed as well
Seriously? Please explain how it could possibly use MORE resources. We're usually on random routes between smaller airports. In no way does that impact the airline's decision to continue to utilize piss poor scheduling practices which pound a hub airport with 100 flights per hour.
I'm guessing you'd advocate ditching the ILS, so we'd be forced to take up a precious slot at the airline hub airport nearby.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
That is still nuts, while commercial airline operations only make up roughly 40% of the roughly 85000 flights in the United States per day, every single one of them uses the ATC system. Roughly 15% of the use is by the Military, and most of those use the system. Roughly 20% is used by corporate aircraft (this includes 135 cargo operators, contract carriers, and other business) most of which probably use the system for long flights, and the last 25% is used by the week end warriors and small PP's doing touch and goes or short XC's. I think its safe to say that most of the last group do not use the ATC system.
Even before giving these numbers I don't see how you think companies that are large or profitable enough to operate a corporate aircraft aren't paying there part. The only tax that goes to pay for the things that everyone uses in the system are the taxes on fuel. If you look at the percentages of usage, and take into account the MASSIVE tax breaks that the airlines get on that fuel tax (only around $.04 per gallon vs $2 or $3 for everyone else) it works out that the airlines are getting a pretty good deal.
The major difference, and I think the reason the airlines bitch about it is these taxes have a direct affect on the airlines because they make their money on burning that gas flying people around. Could you imagine what ticket prices would be to cover the tax on fuel if the airlines didn't get such a tax break, I don't think any would exist. Corporate companies pay taxes into the system (at a much higher rate mind you) on the fuel they burn and they use the aircraft to help their businesses run better of more efficiently.
Looking at it from this perspective you should see that because the airlines have to burn fuel to make a profit they are getting a huge tax break. I know you are a democrat, your political stance on economics is probably that huge profitable businesses or individuals shouldn't be getting more tax breaks, make them pay more and let the poor people or struggling businesses keep more money to help them succeed. Thinking like this the airlines should be paying a hell of a lot more!
Just to sum it up since this became a political rant, republicans are the ones that developed the massive tax breaks the airlines get. Even though the reason that measure was probably passes is because the more fuel the airlines burn the more money the oil barons who are in or lobby congress make.
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
You guys realize you're arguing about who should be paying more to cover the FAA's 0.3% of the federal budget, right?
For comparison, if you received an unexpected $1,000 credit card bill in the mail, right now you'd be fighting with your wife over who should pay for the $3 bag of gummie bears someone bought.
This is exactly what the idiots in charge are hoping for.
For comparison, if you received an unexpected $1,000 credit card bill in the mail, right now you'd be fighting with your wife over who should pay for the $3 bag of gummie bears someone bought.
This is exactly what the idiots in charge are hoping for.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Headshot... I'm dead
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
The FAA had a requested 2012 budget of ~$18.7 billion. They are cutting $600 million in 2013. The 2010 budget was roughly $15.7 billion. We are just about $2 billion above where we were in 2010 after the cuts take place (15% higher over 3 years) and back then no one was talking about closing towers. Just something to think about.
rocketman5150
Well-Known Member
There's a good question. WHY do we need FAA inspectors?
Speed Pilot
Brain Damaged
I've said this a couple times before on here, I'll say it again. The national airspace system is a PUBLIC use system. Guess how the majority of the public uses the system. On the AIRLINES. The airlines aren't paying for the ATC system the passengers are because the airlines have those things put into the price of a ticket. The airlines are the ones not paying their share. They don't pay the fuel tax the GA world does. The airlines should be paying more, not trying to make others pick up the slack that the airlines aren't paying. The majority of the fees and taxes should be paid by the airlines because that's how the majority of the public accesses the system. Sounds like a democratic way of handling it to me.
Carry on.
Carry on.
rocketman5150
Well-Known Member
If you agree that airline passengers are funding the NAS, and that they do so because the airlines are building that cost into the price of a ticket, then how do you propose to make the AIRLINES pay more? Won't they just build THAT into the price of a ticket as well?
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
I actually don't have a problem with the pricing of airline tickets going up. And yes, I fly commercial from time to time. Depends where I am going and weather. It's a business expense, and just like the GA plane, travel is to be efficient, and even with a 10-15% increase it would still be efficient.
But don't mess with my FF miles!!!!! 8)
rocketman5150
Well-Known Member
I would dare say that the airlines ARE paying the fuel tax that the GA world does. But because they can spread that tax over the number of passengers they carry, the individual passenger doesn't pay as much per person. GA owner/operators perceive that they pay more because they are shouldering the entire cost.
But regardless of that, why must the solution be to raise taxes on the air carriers? Why can't instead lower taxes on GA?
Speed Pilot
Brain Damaged
Yes they will. And that's ok. I also believe people aren't paying enough to go from A to B either.