Salvage Landing

Windchill

Windchill

Well-Known Member
So Friday two of my best friends from DE came over for the weekend. Both will be the 'best men' in my wedding, and Saturday we flew down to KHEF Manassas, VA to pick out tuxes for the wedding, Amy my fiance went with us. She has flown with me numerous times, they had never flown with me or in a small plane.

Trip down from KMRB Martinsburg, WV was pretty uneventful, light turbulence over the mountains though. Going back was a different story, light turbulence the entire trip with moderate turb over the mountains.

Amy almost got sick, glad she didn't. Anyhow, finally came in for the landing and chose 26 after listening to ATIS tell me x-wind 220@9.

Come in, trying to crab and react to the xwind, land on the right main, and stayed on just the right main for what seemed like an eternity, I was certain the plane would flip, finally the left main it and the plane suddenly veered to the left at which point I was certain we would be in the grass . . . somehow after some fantsy footwork, hand control, and a bag full of luck, I kept it on the runway.

The flight back was bad enough with having to fight the plane the entire way back, the landing freaked out my passengers.

Interesting thing is, my problems with landings have always been coming in too high and hot, then dropping the plane on all 3 wheels and bouncing, I'm finally coming in nicely, this time winds just wreaked havoc.

After looking at the wind sock when we deplaned, I should have come in on 35. Also, when it's windy I don't fly, instead I should be up practicing xwind t/o and landings.

We live to fly another day.
 
Go practice some crosswind landings with an instructor or go earn your tailwheel endorsement. Flying a tailwheel airplane will train you to correct for the wind (you can't get away with side-drift in a taildragger). People put airplanes in the mud more often than they should because they just don't use the proper technique to correct for crosswinds.

You say you should have landed on 35 judging from the windsock after you got out of the plane? This is why you should always do a midfield flyover and look at the windsock before landing at an uncontrolled field, traffic permitting.

Bank into the wind, keep the upwind wing low. Toes for the nose (rudder to keep it on centerline). Go around if you don't like what you see. Much better to go around than bend an airplane in a ditch.


Hope this helps, and sorry if I sound harsh, but I hate seeing airplanes needlessly damaged....I'm sure you'll do better next time!
 
As everyone has been telling me for the past few days... bad landings happen. Usually when there are a whole bunch of people around. A quick question about flying into HEF. It's inside the DC ADIZ right? How easy is it to get in and out of there? I have to be in Manassas next week and I was thinking of trying to get my instructor to sign of on it as a xc trip. Is dealing with Potomac App and the ADIZ procedures something that a student pilot could deal with solo? I would only fly it if the weather was REALLY good. Otherwise I would be driving. Anybody feel free to jump in here. Thanks.

Ethan
 
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Is dealing with Potomac App and the ADIZ procedures something that a student pilot could deal with solo?
Ethan

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I would hope, or else there would be no new pilots coming from the Balt/Wash area
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Yes. If you know how to squawk and say "Potomac approach, Cessna 12345 off XYZ at 1500, climbing to 2500" you'll be fine.
 
You may need the class B signoff... I don't remember if HEF is within the class B surface area, but I know it's close.

HEF is a great airport. I'd avoid Dulles Aviation and park at the FBO on the north side. Also, its a training tower, so they're learning just like you.

Have fun!
 
Coming from the Cassanova VOR one could stay under the Class B airspace for KHEF, but it's a really good idea to get the sign off anyhow should you accidentally enter Class B, or should Potomac Approach need to vector you in Class B for any reason . . . basically good insurance to have.

Alchemy, No problem. I completely agree with you said, and after that landing I blamed the wind, but also faulted myself because it's my responsibility to have it down and exercise competency. I accept responsibility when I make mistakes, or in this case don't do things like practice. It's all about helping each other out and offering advice and I appreciate that.

Just looking out for a brotha, that's all.
 
Aircraft approaching from the south and west should contact potomac appraoch on 120.82(when its busy) or 124.65 on a slower day(like a sunday morning). Tell them you have a ADIZ flight plan on file. They will give you a code and clear you direct manassas. HEF is class D and the shelf over manassas starts at 2500 or 3000 depending on where you are. It shouldnt be a problem. ATC will almost always tell you to maintain VFR below the class b. It might be a little much for a student pilot depending on how much training you have had with radio comm and dealing with atc. THe tower is great..very helpful and they will get you into the field if you get lost. they have radar. Just make sure you dont cross the outer limits of the class b(even if below the shelf) without squawking your code and do not switch it to vfr until the engine is shut down. I would recommend jet services on the east ramp...thats where I fly and they are great. pm me with any questions. Also, if you need to navigate...manassas is 18dme off the 065 radial from casanova.
 
Yeah, one more thing about flying in the ADIZ around DC:

MAINTAIN YOUR SQUAWK UNTIL YOU SHUT OFF YOUR ENGINE AND YOUR PLANE IS PARKED

I have heard too many stories of people who are told frequency change approved, maintain squawk until you're on the ground by ATC and then change their squawk to 1200. You will get at the very least a nasty phone call when you're on the ground, and if they're feeling jumpy, one of those Customs Blackhawks may take a sudden interest in what you're doing.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Amy almost got sick, glad she didn't. Anyhow, finally came in for the landing and chose 26 after listening to ATIS tell me x-wind 220@9.

Come in, trying to crab and react to the xwind, land on the right main, and stayed on just the right main for what seemed like an eternity, I was certain the plane would flip, finally the left main it and the plane suddenly veered to the left at which point I was certain we would be in the grass . . . somehow after some fantsy footwork, hand control, and a bag full of luck, I kept it on the runway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the conditions that you described - wind 220 at 9 and landing on rwy. 26 (assuming approx 260 heading), wouldn't that be a left cross-wind? I'm a little confused as to why (or how) you landed on your right main first...

If you had used (or did use) the "wing-low" method, of putting in right rudder to align yourself with the runway centerline and counteracted the drift with left aileron, you would have landed with the up-wind, i.e. left main first.

BUT, and this is a big but, don't forget to neutralize that rudder pressure before the nose wheel touches or yes, you will steer off the runway.

Glad to hear that you made it safe though. X-Wind landings are something that everone needs practice on, myself included.


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Dave
 
Keep in mind you were carrying more weight than you were probably used to. It usually helps to keep your speed a little higher when you have someone in the back of a light GA plane. I can even imagine someone loading sacks of weight in the back to practise landings before taking along live ones. Live well and learn.
 
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