S.3048, allows management to use CVR's against pilots!

Could someone explain what exactly FOQA and ASAP are for someone that doesn't fly 121? Are they basically ASRS type programs for airlines?

Sort of. FOQA takes data from flight characteristics, de-identifies it, and you can spot potentially hazardous trends. Essentially, you can recreate a flight in a "MS flight simulator" type display and see what was going on. It's become a very useful tool in training, and it's EXTREMELY useful in spotting alarming trends. Now, you have to use this data properly. Rather than going after the pilots that are operating these flights, we use the data to determine why the flights are being operated in such a manner. FOQA data in the past has led to manual changes, new checklists and new procedures all aimed at improving the overall safety of the operation. I'm here to say, it DOES work. The really bad FOQA examples sometimes wind up as examples of how NOT to operate the aircraft and often serve as starting points for discussions in the CRM class. For example, a flight operating into an airport is turning at 500 AGL, doesn't have all the flaps out yet and is fast. This is no where CLOSE to being termed a "stabilized approach," and it should have ending in a go around, not a salvaged landing. We've got the data to recreate a flight, and they show it in our CRM classes. After viewing the data, then question gets asked "Who was at fault here? If the CA were flying, and you were the FO what would you have done?" It takes a negative, turns it into a training opportunity while at the same time seeing if it's a common occurrence at the airline that is indicative of a larger problem.

ASAP is sort of like a NASA form for the airlines. You basically "self-disclose" when something goes wrong, your report is de-identified and you can't be disciplined for it under MOST circumstances. There are things that would keep a report from being accepted into the ASAP program, and if these things happen, you're still on the hook. I generally fill one out just in case to cover my rear. Let's say your FO goes 10 degrees off heading on an approach, you're tired from the night before and didn't notice. Now tower is wondering what's going on and queries you. Just because they say you're okay doesn't REALLY mean you're off the hook. A contributing factor to this would be fatigue. Filling out an ASAP and mentioning that could help identify yet another trend. We had a checklist change because of ASAP reports from multiple pilots. The occurrences of the event when from fairly often to zero as a result.

When used properly, both can be excellent safety tools. When abused by management (or the pilots in some cases), that advantage goes away because no one will participate in the program. If you're not getting any participation, you don't get reports. Without reports, there's no way to spot trends and increase safety.
 
ASAP and FOQA are programs setup and run at each operator.

ASAP is similar to the NASA ASRS program, in that is collects written narratives that report operational anomalies. The reports are de-identified and classified based on the content (e.g., phase of flight, kind of occurrence, systems involved, operating conditions). Periodically (weekly), the union, company, and FAA get together and review the reports to decide which ones are to be accepted by the ASAP program and qualify for immunity from punitive action against the reporter.

FOQA is a separate, but parallel program that retrieves time-based, parameterized recorded flight data from as many flights as possible. Analysis algorithms are used to examine the data and produce statistics about how the aircraft are being flown. This data is also de-identified to attempt to prevent singling-out specific crews.

The expectation is that a continuous review of operational performance and anomalies will feedback into improved guidance for training or other changes to "the way things are done."

Edit: Curse you yakety cube-vulture man who delayed my reply to second place!
 
I'm sitting ready reserve. What else do I have to do other than snipe people on JC? :)

You too? I've been here since 5am. Well, actually, I slept in my car until 9am but I've been here for the last 4 hours. 2 more to go! The stupid thing is that on Saturdays there are 7 flights out of Dayton all day long.
 
It's sometimes the non-invested individuals that are able to see things more objectively.

Oh, okay I see.

There's some truth to that. Not being invested in something does allow you to see things more objectively. When you remove the Id from the equation one can see both sides without regard to personal gratification.

That being said, without an interest one has to be very educated in the topic they're discussing. Hard to do without practical experience in the field.
 
There's some truth to that. Not being invested in something does allow you to see things more objectively. When you remove the Id from the equation one can see both sides without regard to personal gratification.

That being said, without an interest one has to be very educated in the topic they're discussing. Hard to do without practical experience in the field.

Being impartial or at least open to other points of view help.
 
FOQA alone may have done the job. No need to monitor CVRs. I highly doubt they would have NOT gone to FL410 and operated the aircraft in the manner they did simply because the CVR was being monitored. Maybe a few less f-bombs, and they may have fessed up to the dual engine failure earlier, but I don't think it would have prevented core lock on the engines.

Not sure I agree, if they knew they were being monitored would they have done stuff like switch seats? Plus you have to wonder what else they did before the crash (CA and FO). I have to say switching seats has never crossed my mind. Shows a lack of respect.
 
The more I work around pilots the more I see it's all about #1. The really new to this profession and the really senior in this profession never cease to amaze me with the "me first" mentality. I understand completely why unions used to crack peoples heads with lead pipes back in the days, I'd like to bring some of that back.

Makes me miss my ramping days.

Don't be fooled. The union thugs that were cracking heads were looking out for number 1 as much as the people who's heads they were cracking.

If you're not going to look out for yourself, who will? And if you're not looking out for yourself, who are you looking after?
 
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