RDoug
Well-Known Member
I'm having trouble seeing how this is the fault of the autopilot:
Russia Asks For 747 Autopilot Changes Following Crash
Russia Asks For 747 Autopilot Changes Following Crash
Russia Asks For 747 Autopilot Changes Following Crash
- Thread starter RDoug
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Paywall! DOH!
How long have ya been interneting for?
1. Copy news article headline
2. Paste into google
3. Enjoy
Ok the first link only shows half the article, then you gotta pay for the rest. The second link shows the story....................
https://aviationvoice.com/russia-requests-747-autopilot-changes-after-bishkek-crash-201703281120/
Russia Requests 747 Autopilot Changes After Bishkek Crash
Russian investigators are advising Boeing to consider amending autopilot logic to avoid the possibility of an aircraft’s automatically following a descent path incompatible with runway position.
The recommendation has emerged from the inquiry into the landing accident involving a MyCargo Airlines Boeing 747-400F at Bishkek on 16 January.
It resulted in 39 fatalities, most of them people on the ground, as the 747 automatically descended on a glidepath which overshot the runway, taking the aircraft past the airport and into a residential district.
Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee found that the aircraft had intercepted a false glideslope, above the normal 3° descent path, because it had been too high on the approach.
Fifteen seconds after this false glideslope capture, the flight-mode annunciator registered a fault centred on the autopilot flight director system.
This indicated that the aircraft was no longer following the glideslope, and it would have generated warnings on the cockpit displays and the removal of certain flight-director information.
But the autopilot would not have disengaged, the inquiry says. Instead it would have maintained an inertial path, continuing to track a standard 3° descent path, regardless of the actual glideslope.
“The path will be maintained until a valid glideslope signal is regained or until the crew intervenes by disengaging the autopilot or initiating a go-around,” adds the inquiry.
Boeing equips its aircraft range with this inertial-path generation capability in order to allow the autopilot to continue an approach even if glideslope or localiser signals are disrupted.
“Without crew intervention the autopilot will maintain the inertial path until the ‘flare’ mode is engaged,” says the inquiry.
The crew of the 747 – which had been conducting the Bishkek approach in darkness and fog – did not intervene or attempt to execute a go-around until the aircraft had reached the decision height.
Even after realising the runway was not visible, the pilots allowed the aircraft to drift further down, and the autopilot’s flare mode engaged before the crew commanded go-around power.
The attempt to abort was too late to prevent a ground impact nearly 1km beyond the far end of the runway.
Investigators have recommended that airlines operating Boeing aircraft increase crews’ awareness of a possible switch to inertial mode by the autopilot during a glideslope descent.
Boeing should also “consider the practicability” of changing the autopilot’s logic to “prevent occurrences” of an inertial descent in situations when the approach path “does not allow landing in the appropriate area on the runway”.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
In Soviet Russia autopilot flies you!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Paging @Screaming_Emu
But the autopilot would not have disengaged, the inquiry says. Instead it would have maintained an inertial path, continuing to track a standard 3° descent path, regardless of the actual glideslope.
Say whatttt???????
What exactly would the PFD show? LOC/GS? What's this inertial mode?
But the autopilot would not have disengaged, the inquiry says. Instead it would have maintained an inertial path, continuing to track a standard 3° descent path, regardless of the actual glideslope.
Say whatttt???????
What exactly would the PFD show? LOC/GS? What's this inertial mode?
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
Why are we still doing ILS approaches?
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Because outside the US and Western Europe, RNAV approaches rarely exist.
Last edited:
z987k
Well-Known Member
Prelim - https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20170116-0
Here's the plate if you want to reference it while reading.
It looks like it was go around time at the outer marker, and then multiple indications for a go-around after that. I'm interested in reading the CVR.
The news article makes no sense at all after reading the prelim.
Here's the plate if you want to reference it while reading.
It looks like it was go around time at the outer marker, and then multiple indications for a go-around after that. I'm interested in reading the CVR.
The news article makes no sense at all after reading the prelim.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I've never seen a Cat II or III Rnav. Have you?
Flying around the world I think the only place I've done an RNAV on a consistent basis is ICN.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Thanks UPS.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
That's exactly it. Most RNAV approaches outside of US and WE, are created by airlines. There is one at Roberts in Liberia. It was created by and for Delta initially, and then gifted to the country.
I think he's referring to the UPS MD11 that took out the localizer at ICN.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Looks like they kind of screwed the pooch on that approach from the start.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
It's a feature of a "fail safe" autopilot. Normally they will just hold the last pitch and roll amounts when there is no more valid data to follow (end of flight plan or GS/LOC data fails). I'm sure there were all kinds of flags on the display but the plane just kept doing whatever it was doing before the flags showed up.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I love the rare moments the ILS is OTS at EWR and I give everyone RNAV approaches. I don't know why we don't use it more often. I think here it's cause most of the controllers are the older guys and stick with what they're used too. I don't think they realize how much more work they make for themselves
@A Life Aloft , any specifics?
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Maybe not being high may have helped...
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
So you tell the autopilot to do something and it keeps doing it until the "pilot" tells it to do something else or intervenes when it does something unexpected. And when that doesn't happen it goes into default modes??? WAT?? Teh horroooor.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
It says GS captured but we're descending at 3,000 fpm.