Runway Accidents At Sedona 2 Days In A Row

This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
 
Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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I loved the restaurants, spas and the scenery when taking the Jeep out around the area.
 
Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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The red rock country is beautiful. Also attracts the "vortex energy" hippies too. :)

The "USS Sedona" can be a challenge if the winds are right and one doesn't expect possible downdrafts on short final. Been flying in and our of there since the 80s, and its not one to be taken for granted. Jet ops are possible into there, since you generally land uphill and depart downhill if winds are calm to generally favorable.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I wonder if they send two separate NTSB crews, or if one just works both of them.
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Nope. Two separate crews, or can delegate to the FAA if not significant enough.

We had two F-16 accidents back in the early 2000s near Gila Bend within a week of each other; two completely separate investigations, even though some of the investigating team from the first one were also witnesses for the second.
 
Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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If you visit, stay at the Adobe Grand Villas. Bring your wife/fiance/girlfriend/FWB/girl next door/etc with you. Expensive compared to the other hotels in the area, but it's quite an awesome place.
 
and have lunch at Oaxaca on the main drag. Great Mexican food. Eat there every time I go. ( pronounced wah - hah - kah )
 
Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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Weddings ... including Murdoughnut's

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Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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One of the prettiest places in the west! :)

Sure beats Decatur, Georgia.
 
Jacob Wall said:
This is random but what is in Sedona that makes it popular? When I went to ERAU for a summer camp for high school students they took us to Sedona but I don't remember anything being there.
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Yeah, there's nothing really there except beautiful and dramatic topography. :dunno: I don't know why I make an effort to stop there as often as possible.

Having landing there several times in the past 2 years, I've often found myself high on final and floating a little too much once I'm over the runway. I've never been one to succumb to runway illusions, but Sedona seems to get me.
 
Cal Goat said:
Yeah, there's nothing really there except beautiful and dramatic topography. :dunno: I don't know why I make an effort to stop there as often as possible.

Having landing there several times in the past 2 years, I've often found myself high on final and floating a little too much once I'm over the runway. I've never been one to succumb to runway illusions, but Sedona seems to get me.
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It's those energy vortexes eating up airplanes.
 
In the Phenom accident, the aircraft landed on Runway 21, which is the down hill sloping runway. After doing a bit of digging, it appears the weather was Southwesterly winds at 7mph gusting to 17mph (Source) at the time of the accident. Here's the airport info for SEZ.

Question for the experienced pilots out there: How do you determine the correct runway to land on in the accident scenario. Should the pilot have ignored the winds in this case and landed on the up slope? Or were the winds strong enough to land into them on the down slope?
 
Shiner said:
In the Phenom accident, the aircraft landed on Runway 21, which is the down hill sloping runway. After doing a bit of digging, it appears the weather was Southwesterly winds at 7mph gusting to 17mph (Source) at the time of the accident. Here's the airport info for SEZ.

Question for the experienced pilots out there: How do you determine the correct runway to land on in the accident scenario. Should the pilot have ignored the winds in this case and landed on the up slope? Or were the winds strong enough to land into them on the down slope?
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That all really depends. The landing performance numbers will take both slope and wind into account. More than likely, you'd still want to land upwind.
 
Sedona's a nice place. Lot's of weird hippies, but it's pretty nonetheless. In a light airplane, you save yourself alot of heartburn by coming in high and landing about 1000 or more feet down the runway, not really possible to come in that high in a jet though.
 
Shiner said:
In the Phenom accident, the aircraft landed on Runway 21, which is the down hill sloping runway. After doing a bit of digging, it appears the weather was Southwesterly winds at 7mph gusting to 17mph (Source) at the time of the accident. Here's the airport info for SEZ.

Question for the experienced pilots out there: How do you determine the correct runway to land on in the accident scenario. Should the pilot have ignored the winds in this case and landed on the up slope? Or were the winds strong enough to land into them on the down slope?
Click to expand...

A recent mountain flying course I took presented the following formula for takeoff:
Break Even Headwind = (runway slope * no-wind TO distance) / (5 * lift-off speed)

For a typical C-182R on a 2 degree slope, 1600ft TO roll, and rotate speed of 55, the equation yeilds 11.6 kts. This says that you're better off going down wind and downhill until the tailwind is greater than 11 knts.

I don't remember a formula for making a landing decision, but I would assume it would produce similar numbers for similar reasons.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Weddings ... including Murdoughnut's

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I have those cufflinks!!! :)

I go to Sedona every month pretty much. I have turned around and come home because of winds. The METAR simply does not indicated the winds coming off the surrounding mountains. I was there last weekend come to think of it.
 
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