Rise from the Ashes?

Sluggo

Well-Known Member
Looks like ExpressJet is planning a comeback for this year flying places where other airlines couldn't make money. Not sure how well this is going to work but good luck to them.

From their homepage:
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Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
Rolling into someplace that lost service because everyone else left because they lost money isn't a recipe for success. Airplanes cost X to fly and labor delta is actually a fairly small part of the equation. You can't pay people nothing forever, because low pay equals bad product, which is a killer to small operators.
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser


Yeah...I'll agree with @azmedic that MAYBE a JSX-type model will work. But that would only work in a few parts of the country and JSX already is well known in the most lucrative of those; the US West Coast. But...didn't work out so well the first time Xjet went independent flying "abandoned" routes and there was way less competition in 2007.
 

FloridaLarry

Well-Known Member
If they combine their model with Essential Air Service markets, they may have some successes.

Look at what Skywest has done with older CRJ-200s. But you need to (a.) Own the aircraft, (b.) Have depreciated them sufficiently and c.) Fly to hubs for connecting traffic, and (d.) Negotiate thru-ticketing to facilitate connecting PAX.

Of course, most of the markets that fit these criteria already have some service.
 

Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
If they combine their model with Essential Air Service markets, they may have some successes.

Look at what Skywest has done with older CRJ-200s. But you need to (a.) Own the aircraft, (b.) Have depreciated them sufficiently and c.) Fly to hubs for connecting traffic, and (d.) Negotiate thru-ticketing to facilitate connecting PAX.

Of course, most of the markets that fit these criteria already have some service.
EAS is not the panacea that some think. Crappy service (likely) leads to penalties which can blow your margin in an instant, and no matter how good you are the airport manager thinks you suck since you don't fly 727s like they used to get in 1968. He/she is usually a juiced in, minor functionary that has the ear of the other representative creatures, and will essentially make your life difficult no matter how good your service is. They're always looking to boot you because the next outfit in the pipeline is jonesin' for that subsidy and is making all kinds of wild promises, just like you did to bump the guy out in front of you.

Unless the EAS airport is TRULY isolated, either by LONG distance or geography (IE you live on an island), you're never going to grab enough people since a fair number will simply just drive to the next 'burg with real service. These aren't city folk that get wrapped around the axle when Starbuck's puts regular milk instead of soy in their latte'....these folks have zero compunction getting up at 0330 to drive 180 miles to grab a real flight, and they DON'T show up in their jammies.

If by some rare happenstance that you are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you get passenger numbers that actually make it worth the effort, they take your subsidy away since you obviously don't need it.
 

FloridaLarry

Well-Known Member
EAS is not the panacea that some think. Crappy service (likely) leads to penalties which can blow your margin in an instant, and no matter how good you are the airport manager thinks you suck since you don't fly 727s like they used to get in 1968. He/she is usually a juiced in, minor functionary that has the ear of the other representative creatures, and will essentially make your life difficult no matter how good your service is. They're always looking to boot you because the next outfit in the pipeline is jonesin' for that subsidy and is making all kinds of wild promises, just like you did to bump the guy out in front of you....
There are, and have been, EAS operators who have given crappy service beyond the realities of flying smaller planes into shorter runways and been at the scheduling mercies of their larger partner-carriers. Most of them are out of business, as they should be, and probably replaced by someone who will do a better, but not perfect for everyone, job. The locals are always going to be looking for the best service they can get, which does some times mean pitting today's reality against promises of next year's possibilites. That's just the American capitalist reality.
Unless the EAS airport is TRULY isolated, either by LONG distance or geography (IE you live on an island), you're never going to grab enough people since a fair number will simply just drive to the next 'burg with real service. These aren't city folk that get wrapped around the axle when Starbuck's puts regular milk instead of soy in their latte'....these folks have zero compunction getting up at 0330 to drive 180 miles to grab a real flight, and they DON'T show up in their jammies...
.
You over-simplify, good sir. For five years, I lived and worked in a mid-American EAS city. The nearest larger airports were 2 1/2, 4+ and 5+hours away by car. Depending on the immediate circumstances, I variously flew out of my home city, and each of the farther options. During most of that time, by EAS carrier I had to fly an hour and a quarter west to connect and fly east, if that was my destination. VERY seldom did it. But if I WAS flying west, that hour and a quarter was better than five plus hours in a car, expensive airport parking, etc. Other factors include flight schedules, the schedule demands of my trips and cost. One size does not fit all!

If by some rare happenstance that you are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you get passenger numbers that actually make it worth the effort, they take your subsidy away since you obviously don't need it.
There is a middle ground, where scheduling, connections, price, time of day and a clear understanding of the market will produce EAS service that fits demand, avoids unrealistic and never-profitable operations, creating a service which can ONLY succeed with some subsidy. It's one of the things we expect of our government. Carriers hope to grow the number of passengers to support service that is truly profitable. But some markets just do not have that much demand, and never will. Plus, by now, EAS regs have pretty much eliminated the ridiculous smallest markets.

Footnote: Alaska is an exception to any and all EAS statements and opinions.
 

Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
There are, and have been, EAS operators who have given crappy service beyond the realities of flying smaller planes into shorter runways and been at the scheduling mercies of their larger partner-carriers. Most of them are out of business, as they should be, and probably replaced by someone who will do a better, but not perfect for everyone, job. The locals are always going to be looking for the best service they can get, which does some times mean pitting today's reality against promises of next year's possibilites. That's just the American capitalist reality.
.
You over-simplify, good sir. For five years, I lived and worked in a mid-American EAS city. The nearest larger airports were 2 1/2, 4+ and 5+hours away by car. Depending on the immediate circumstances, I variously flew out of my home city, and each of the farther options. During most of that time, by EAS carrier I had to fly an hour and a quarter west to connect and fly east, if that was my destination. VERY seldom did it. But if I WAS flying west, that hour and a quarter was better than five plus hours in a car, expensive airport parking, etc. Other factors include flight schedules, the schedule demands of my trips and cost. One size does not fit all!



There is a middle ground, where scheduling, connections, price, time of day and a clear understanding of the market will produce EAS service that fits demand, avoids unrealistic and never-profitable operations, creating a service which can ONLY succeed with some subsidy. It's one of the things we expect of our government. Carriers hope to grow the number of passengers to support service that is truly profitable. But some markets just do not have that much demand, and never will. Plus, by now, EAS regs have pretty much eliminated the ridiculous smallest markets.

Footnote: Alaska is an exception to any and all EAS statements and opinions.
Oh, I say good sir, oh harumph, harumph, oh badoop oh badoopa bo bo. You aren't the only one was exiled to the Steppes and saw how things worked out there. The "locals", as you so quaintly put it, weren't out for the best service, but were out for their own best interests, which is a subtle, but important distinction.
 

Skåning

Well-Known Member
If you choose to live in BFE it should be on you to hop in that car and get to an airport that sustains service, not the taxpayers at large. I include alaska and Hawaii in that statement too.
 

Richman

That's "Lord Garth" to you
If you choose to live in BFE it should be on you to hop in that car and get to an airport that sustains service, not the taxpayers at large. I include alaska and Hawaii in that statement too.
So much for rural electrification.
 

FloridaLarry

Well-Known Member
... The "locals", as you so quaintly put it, weren't out for the best service, but were out for their own best interests, which is a subtle, but important distinction.
'Best service' and 'best interests' may well be synonymous. There still exist in this country those who can recognize and prefer a greater good over self-interest.
 
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