Right Turns on Circling Approach?
- Thread starter MidlifeFlyer
- Start date
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
My rule of thumb is I turn outside of pattern altitude (5 miles). Doing so I personally think I have entered straight in on final. Remember we also have the ASAP to protect us if we do something like this and the FAA starts sniffing up our butts, so you do have that. I got into it with an FO one day over this, he flew off the handle when I mentioned it, "I've never been violated", I dunno it really gave me a pause. I honestly don't think anyone in our world follows this, we all just enter in for the visual pattern whichever way is easiest.
Can you honestly see us crossing over the field and turning to enter the downwind? I mean really? You wouldn't really want to cross the field at pattern altitude and turn left, IIRC that is bad form as well, I thought in private pilot land we were taught to exit the pattern, turn back and enter the downwind on a 45. Or maybe you could just turn left. Useful for the left seat guy at least, if he's flying. I guess it does technically adhere to the reg. Good luck convincing the other guy to do it.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Also assuming IMC, in jtrain's example, but you are doing a VOR-A or something. Instead of turning right to final and landing the FAA wants you to overfly the field at minimums (assuming cloud base is low) and make left turns? Can you so holy-accident-waiting-to-happen-batman? Jesus you are already low and in a fast airplane you have little time to maneuver and don't have the visibility you do in a trainer with windows all around you. Just stupid.
Dorking around while maneuvering, trying to stay at an MDA that's far lower than the visual picture you're normally used to, trying to stay within a circling distance, trying to stay clear of the ceiling and/or maintain your viz with the airport, and needlessly remaining airborne longer than absolutely necessary; simply to comply with some rule designed to keep you safe from non-existant other-traffic-in-the-pattern......IS an accident waiting to happen. I fully agree.
block30
Well-Known Member
Yes. And there are times when circling to one side of the runway is the only way to maintain visual contact...the clag is rolling in on the other side of the runway. Are you supposed to circle right into that?
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
No planes around, I turn whatever direction is closest to putting me on a final from where I'm coming. I'm always on the "straight in" final. Not before saying "any traffic in the area please advise," raising my flaps in the flare, and cancelling at the gate however.
But no really. Fly your damn plane and quit worrying what the feds think about everything.
But no really. Fly your damn plane and quit worrying what the feds think about everything.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I was assuming VMC.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Common among the CFIs I teach along with to put a student on the wrong side of the pattern and make them land. The rationale being that they largely use geography to determine the approach, and before soloing they have generally only used one runway. Things often get ugly when they get stuck with a non-standard pattern.
Not "FAA Approved," but I consider it necessary for training...
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Wuss.
Hence why circling approaches are VMC-only at grown-up operators flying large, fast equipment.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Wuss.
Hence why circling approaches are VMC-only at grown-up operators flying large, fast equipment.
Meh. I've flown the 1900 (which until recently was a "grown up" airplane) on plenty of circling approaches. Stay inside the protected area, and FTFA (fly the XXXX airplane). I routinely fly the Navajo and the PC-12 on circling approaches right now and don't have a problem if I comply with the plate and have an "Integrated Scan" - meaning that I'm focusing both inside and outside the airplane. It's not about being grown up, it's about procedural discipline and knowing how and when to go missed if things get weird. The speeds in the pattern in the 1900 can't be that different from what the CRJ200s out there. I'd suspect that Cat-D mins are less common unless you're flying some mil hardware.
I'm on the phone so I cant upload a pic now, but look at the approaches for Jackson Hole Runway 1 both VOR and GPS. As you see circling east is not allowed because of terrian (black tail butte).But if you break out and cancel or call for a visual your circle to land is canceled and told to make left traffic Rwy 19. Either way terrain is on both sides. Granted if you have to a circle to land for 19 why not just use the ILS or GPS 19 apph. Sometimes crap is notamed OTS or in my case my plane is a POS and nothing works!
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Yee haw. I bow to your Nighthawk-fu.
757 is C-straight in D-circling; EM2 is B/C. I don't remember what the CRJ-200 is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's "up there."
And yes, knowing when to say "screw it" is the key.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
This.
If you're considering making a circling approach at minimums, you may be wasting brain power that could be used to come up with a better plan. I can think of very few times in my career that I've really had to make a serious circling approach at minimums. The few times that I've done it- and one in particular- which were most likely out of laziness/convenience (bad reasons) made me decide it's a very last choice option. We train for them and are authorized to do them, but I think I'd just as soon divert if there's no better plan than circling in IMC at an unfamiliar airport. I'm not as dumb as I once was.
Back on topic, I agree with everyone that said they do whatever is safest. I too would rather defend myself to the FAA than do a bunch of low-altitude maneuvering just to satisfy a legal interpretation.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Kind of the bottom line.
To revise an old aviation adage, I'd rather be on the ground defending my actions with the FAA or NTSB than in the air wishing I was on the ground (or worse).
Funny. The more I read it the more I find I do understand the letter. Practically speaking ridiculous. From a regulatory interpretation standpoint it makes a weird kind of sense. "All traffic must make turns to the left unless the pilot thinks it would be better to turn right" is an unworkable rule.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
The speeds the 1900 is capable of vs what the 200 is capable of? Seriously?
I can only compare the CRJ 200 to the ATR--a 70 passenger airplane--but there's still a huge difference in the speeds and maneuvering that they can safely use. Like 40-50% faster. That's a pretty big difference.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I'd be surprised if the -200 is anything other than D for circling. Hot little wing.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Yes I know I was using your example but in IMC
