Ride coming up!! Comm prividleges & limits
- Thread starter E_Dawg
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ananoman
New Member
"Holding out" and advertising have nothing to do with offering pilot services. Common Carriage is when you provide a pilot and an aircraft to transport people and property for hire. You can advertise yourself and the fact that you want to fly anyones airplane who will pay you all you want. You are only providing common carriage when you also provide the airplane. If someone wants you to fly their aircraft you can negotiate as much as you want. This is the basis for all part 91 corporate aviation.
You can even fly someone who 'rents' an airplane anywhere they want to go. You just cannot be the one who arranges for the rental. This is where people get themselves into trouble. You cannot run a business that 'rents' airplanes, then have your clients call a list of pilots that you provide who you happen to employ as flight instructors. Even if you claim that they are independent contractors.
When you think about it, this system makes sense. If you hold yourself out to the public, most people know little about aviation. The FAA regulates part 135 operators to protect the public and provide a higher level of safety. But, it would be overly restrictive to say that a commercial pilot cannot transport anyone under any circumstances for compensation. If you are a commerical pilot and your parents want you to fly them somewhere and they offer to pay for the airplane, this is legal. If you make it known that you will fly anyone who ask anywhere they want to go, this is not and you are engaged in common carriage.
You can even fly someone who 'rents' an airplane anywhere they want to go. You just cannot be the one who arranges for the rental. This is where people get themselves into trouble. You cannot run a business that 'rents' airplanes, then have your clients call a list of pilots that you provide who you happen to employ as flight instructors. Even if you claim that they are independent contractors.
When you think about it, this system makes sense. If you hold yourself out to the public, most people know little about aviation. The FAA regulates part 135 operators to protect the public and provide a higher level of safety. But, it would be overly restrictive to say that a commercial pilot cannot transport anyone under any circumstances for compensation. If you are a commerical pilot and your parents want you to fly them somewhere and they offer to pay for the airplane, this is legal. If you make it known that you will fly anyone who ask anywhere they want to go, this is not and you are engaged in common carriage.
chrisdahut1
Well-Known Member
I second eveything ananoman said.
Simply put you cannot provide both the "horse and cart". That, as well as knowing whether your operation falls in the realm of 119.1(e), is the real test of whether or not you are "legal" to operate without a commercial operator certificate.
Simply put you cannot provide both the "horse and cart". That, as well as knowing whether your operation falls in the realm of 119.1(e), is the real test of whether or not you are "legal" to operate without a commercial operator certificate.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You can even fly someone who 'rents' an airplane anywhere they want to go. You just cannot be the one who arranges for the rental. This is where people get themselves into trouble. You cannot run a business that 'rents' airplanes, then have your clients call a list of pilots that you provide who you happen to employ as flight instructors. Even if you claim that they are independent contractors.
[/ QUOTE ]
So,where would the individual rent the airplane? No FBO would rent an aircraft to somebody that isn't a pilot, and most FBO insurance policies state that the renter has to be a pilot, and that no other person is allowed to fly the aircraft other than the renter.
Unless the FBO knows the deal...then, we're back at square one....
You can even fly someone who 'rents' an airplane anywhere they want to go. You just cannot be the one who arranges for the rental. This is where people get themselves into trouble. You cannot run a business that 'rents' airplanes, then have your clients call a list of pilots that you provide who you happen to employ as flight instructors. Even if you claim that they are independent contractors.
[/ QUOTE ]
So,where would the individual rent the airplane? No FBO would rent an aircraft to somebody that isn't a pilot, and most FBO insurance policies state that the renter has to be a pilot, and that no other person is allowed to fly the aircraft other than the renter.
Unless the FBO knows the deal...then, we're back at square one....
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
I've heard that some flight schools allow non-pilots to rent their aircraft, provided a "flight school approved" pilot is going to fly the plane. However, that pilot can in no way be employed by said flight school.
The flight school at that should produce a legal document that has been drawn up, outlining the aircraft renter's obligations and responsibilites, stating that the renter understands that the flight is being conducted under part 91, that the renter is responsible for the airworthiness of the craft, etc etc, and have the renter sign their name on the dotted line. It's legal according to several well-established charter pilots I've talked to. The crucial point in this scenario is that the pilot cannot in any way be employed by the company renting out the airplanes, and the paper trail of payment for rentail of the aircraft cannot go through the pilot. In other words, aircraft rental payment and pilot payment must be completely seperate.
The flight school at that should produce a legal document that has been drawn up, outlining the aircraft renter's obligations and responsibilites, stating that the renter understands that the flight is being conducted under part 91, that the renter is responsible for the airworthiness of the craft, etc etc, and have the renter sign their name on the dotted line. It's legal according to several well-established charter pilots I've talked to. The crucial point in this scenario is that the pilot cannot in any way be employed by the company renting out the airplanes, and the paper trail of payment for rentail of the aircraft cannot go through the pilot. In other words, aircraft rental payment and pilot payment must be completely seperate.
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