Reverse Thrust

Bandit_Driver

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
Ok I have been doing a lot of deadhead travel lately and found one common theme in most of the RJ's I have been on. The apparent mis-use of reverse thrust. In the majority of cases the crew never selected reverse thrust until quite far into the landing roll and then only got on it hard for a second or two. Then it was back on the brakes hard. What are they teaching in schools these days? Reverse thrust is most effect when used at high speeds and early in the landing roll.
 
I know how you feel Bandit_Driver. I love me some good ole reverse thrust! Most ERJ's actually aren't equipped with them like some of the Chautauqua 145's and TSA 145's.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Ok I have been doing a lot of deadhead travel lately and found one common theme in most of the RJ's I have been on. The apparent mis-use of reverse thrust. In the majority of cases the crew never selected reverse thrust until quite far into the landing roll and then only got on it hard for a second or two. Then it was back on the brakes hard. What are they teaching in schools these days? Reverse thrust is most effect when used at high speeds and early in the landing roll.
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Not sure who you've been on. Our guidance is idle reverse thrust with multiple exceptions (reduce FOD damage), so it's probably not us.
 
Could be "fumbling" with levers. I don't know about CRJ/ERJs but some airplanes have a, shall we say, tempermental ground lock out of the reverse system. Land, idle, pull the lever, pull the lever a little harder, release pressure, pull the lever again wapppa! into reverse, 80knots, DAMMIT, stow em.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Ok I have been doing a lot of deadhead travel lately and found one common theme in most of the RJ's I have been on. The apparent mis-use of reverse thrust. In the majority of cases the crew never selected reverse thrust until quite far into the landing roll and then only got on it hard for a second or two. Then it was back on the brakes hard. What are they teaching in schools these days? Reverse thrust is most effect when used at high speeds and early in the landing roll.
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CRJ200 reversers are not easy to deploy... being pneumatic and all...
 
Bandit_Driver said:
Ok I have been doing a lot of deadhead travel lately and found one common theme in most of the RJ's I have been on. The apparent mis-use of reverse thrust. In the majority of cases the crew never selected reverse thrust until quite far into the landing roll and then only got on it hard for a second or two. Then it was back on the brakes hard. What are they teaching in schools these days? Reverse thrust is most effect when used at high speeds and early in the landing roll.
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In my experience that's the captain taking over from the fo trying to make an earlier taxiway..."my plane"....WHIRRRLLLL/screech....everyone slams forward.

To answer your question on training, at xjt I learned 'unspool them by 60, stow them at 40, you'll learn more on IOE'.
 
The -200 reversers are REALLY slow to deploy so it is very possible that they are in fact being commanded open as soon as the nose comes down but you don't actually hear them until the plane as already started to slow due to friction and the spoilers. Also, they have to be heading towards idle reverse by 80 knots (actually 90 knots on our new checklist) and completely at idle by 60 knots so hence the braking at slower speeds.
 
cencal83406 said:
CRJ200 reversers are not easy to deploy... being pneumatic and all...
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It must be a design issue on those engines...The 727/DC us PW JT8D enignes with pneumatic reverse and they get out pretty quick and are highly effective at high speeds allowing you to pull up to max go around EPR in reverse.

BobDDuck said:
The -200 reversers are REALLY slow to deploy so it is very possible that they are in fact being commanded open as soon as the nose comes down but you don't actually hear them until the plane as already started to slow due to friction and the spoilers. Also, they have to be heading towards idle reverse by 80 knots (actually 90 knots on our new checklist) and completely at idle by 60 knots so hence the braking at slower speeds.
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Bob that sound about right, if they are dog slow in deploying. I'm glad the JT8's are that slow... Here's a good video I was sent...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RIIzwxgBDA
 
BobDDuck said:
The -200 reversers are REALLY slow to deploy so it is very possible that they are in fact being commanded open as soon as the nose comes down but you don't actually hear them until the plane as already started to slow due to friction and the spoilers. Also, they have to be heading towards idle reverse by 80 knots (actually 90 knots on our new checklist) and completely at idle by 60 knots so hence the braking at slower speeds.
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Good explanation.

Another factor for the sound of the reversers and feel of the brakes is also your ref speed. With the -200 reversers being slow to deploy, a higher ref speed gives more time for the reversers to deploy and be effective before being pushed back toward idle reverse.

The jamming on the brakes could also be unique to each company. At 9E we are encouraged to limit the use of brakes above 90 knots.
 
All I gotta say is God Bless Boeing. Woo! :)

A jet shouldn't need excuses.
 
You know some airline up north had ordered a number of 75's without RTO on the autobrakes? What the heck! :)
 
Polar742 said:
CRJ-200 have steel or carbon brakes?
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Good question...

and before I answered this, I double-checked my company-issued CRJ systems manual to see if it said it somewhere... I have confirmed that I have NO IDEA what kind of brakes the aircraft has, and we weren't told what they've got. I know it's got anti-skid... and a brake-temp monitoring system... and brake wear pins...

lol
 
Doug Taylor said:
You know some airline up north had ordered a number of 75's without RTO on the autobrakes? What the heck! :)
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We've got one of those. Former ATA bird. I have very limited actual experience with the autobrakes so far, but I will say that my sim partner probably got reeeeeal sick of "*click*...no autobrakes" during my rejects, that is, until I learned to plant my heels on the floor. :)
 
CRJ brakes are steel. The brakes on the 200 are effective but not impressive. The brakes on the 700 (and I would guess the 900) are impressively effective. I read somewhere that they are button carbon brakes on the -1000.

I also remember reading recently that aircraft that transport animals have a much shorter service life because of the corrosiveness of the urine that gets everywhere.
 
Doug Taylor said:
All I gotta say is God Bless Boeing. Woo! :)

A jet shouldn't need excuses.
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Amen

BobDDuck said:
CRJ brakes are steel. The brakes on the 200 are effective but not impressive. The brakes on the 700 (and I would guess the 900) are impressively effective. I read somewhere that they are button carbon brakes on the -1000.

I also remember reading recently that aircraft that transport animals have a much shorter service life because of the corrosiveness of the urine that gets everywhere.
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The 727 uses steel and yes animal transports can have shorter lives if the steup, inspections, and cleaning aren't done correctly.
 
The reversers on the ERJ take forever to deploy, and then even longer to spool....and by then you're almost slowed down anyway.
 
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