Return to Field

TFaudree_ERAU said:
What was accomplished by turning back to the departure airport that couldn't be accomplished by continuing on to the destination, having the police standing by, and letting the other 49 people get to their destination without trouble?
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+1

I don't see what the captain did besides cost the airline money and make a lot of pax frustrated. If I was a pax on the flight, I would be very angry that because some guy wouldn't turn his iPod off, that I may miss my connection/appointment.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
What was accomplished by turning back to the departure airport that couldn't be accomplished by continuing on to the destination, having the police standing by, and letting the other 49 people get to their destination without trouble?
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What was accomplished was setting a precedent for future unruly passengers and to remove someone who was already disobeying crew orders - who's to know whether or not the passenger would become a safety hazard if the passenger starts other problems? The passenger had an anti-authority attitude (where authority is needed for safety) and the Captain was totally in the right to return to the field and kick the passenger off.

mrivc211 said:
Don't question the Captain's decision. If the passenger would have gotten away with it, he is setting a prescedent(sp) that will open a never ending door. Others would have seen this and began to think its ok.

The fact that you can not recognize the potential or fall out from this worries me because if you are to be flying 121 in the future, your view upon this issue will turn this profession into GreyHound.
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Exactly.
 
BobDDuck said:
According to the FA the passenger never read the card and said "what are you going to do, go back to Charlotte and kick me off?"
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TFaudree_ERAU said:
Then how deliberate does it have to be?

A: (Thinking to self) I'm going to sneak in one more text message before we take off, even though the main cabin door is closed.
B: (Thinking to self) I don't care that the seat belt sign is on, I'm going to get up and go to the bathroom.
C: (Boisterously) Eff you Miss Drink Cart B-word, I'm going to listen to my ipod whether you like it or not

Is A and B in any less defiance of a crew member? The safety briefing has been recited, the PA announcements made, and the rest of the pax are following the rules.
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I'm sure you have thought of kicking some butt before, and didn't. No harm, no foul. But being told to do something, and not compling, is, uhh.....deliberate. Get it? He didn't think to himself, he told her "what are you going to do, go back to Charlotte and kick me off?". Be realistic, not a smart***. If I had someone in an airplane I was flying refuse to wear his/her seatbelt, I'd go back to the airport. He is a danger to me and the other passengers on the airplane. If I had anyone refuse ANY instruction for that matter, I'd go back to the airport. Do you remember the PIC thing? The PIC is responsible for the flight. And If someone refuses the instructions of the PIC, there should be consiquences.

Again, what are you going to tell the NTSB when they ask you, "Why did you let this continue?"


Edit: Mabey turning back wasn't the proper thing to do, and I never said ti was. But something needed to be done. Restrain the guy or something.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
How can you deduce that being uncooperative about an ipod will lead to standing up during turbulence?
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To quote Forest Gump... stupid is, as stupid does:crazy:

I saw this all the time, they did one little thing, snagged an email in taxi, then inflight they turn the crackberry back on get a few more, aw what the heck we'll just leave it on for the whole flight, whats it hurting? Its just one little old crackberry.

Because I was suppose to be incognito, I couldn't say anything. But I sure thought about taking the battery out while they were in the lav:D
 
JaceTheAce said:
What was accomplished was setting a precedent for future unruly passengers and to remove someone who was already disobeying crew orders - who's to know whether or not the passenger would become a safety hazard if the passenger starts other problems? The passenger had an anti-authority attitude (where authority is needed for safety) and the Captain was totally in the right to return to the field and kick the passenger off.
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If people are going to be dicks, they're going to be dicks, no matter how many examples have been set before their antics.

I personally would have gone Roosevelt on this guy; speak softly, carry a big stick.

Give him 2 very calm but stern warnings, and on the next offense, coordinate with ops on the other end to have the doughnut patrol board the aircraft, cuff him and carry him away. Total surprise to the guy, and accomplishes the same thing. If he was truly just sitting there watching an ipod, he doesn't pose any imminent danger to anyone else aboard the aircraft. If you say he would have hindered an emergency evacuation because of lack of attention, I say human instinct would take over and you'd have nothing to worry about.

Hell, maybe he would have even finished the movie by the time you landed. With RJ flights being four hours and all now, chances of that happening are pretty good.
 
Yeah, lately Ive seen more antics by passengers. On my last 4 day.....taxxing out of EWR told to follow citrus. Citrus then says they need to return to the gate to remove a passenger. Not sure what the issue was but it sure sounded like they considered having the cops there when ground asked if they needed police. Two days later taxiing in and Cactus is having the same issue....need to go back and deal with a passenger. "We will let you know if we need security". So, thats two in 4 days. And we've had our share of donkeys on flights Ive worked. Hasn't resorted to going back but eventually I'm sure something will.
 
So, you let him continue to play with his toy. What happens when pax around him see it? What happens when they decide if he can do it, so can they? Maybe you haven't observed human nature, or mob mentality---but if someone sees someone getting away with it, they'll try it too.
 
Qgar said:
Maybe you haven't observed human nature, or mob mentality---but if someone sees someone getting away with it, they'll try it too.
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People individually can be intelligent sometimes... mob's are generally just stupid... :D
 
Qgar said:
So, you let him continue to play with his toy. What happens when pax around him see it? What happens when they decide if he can do it, so can they? Maybe you haven't observed human nature, or mob mentality---but if someone sees someone getting away with it, they'll try it too.
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I disagree. I've been on plenty of flights on which there is a passenger that continues to use a cell phone or mp3 player after instructions have been given to turn them off. They simply hide it as the FAs make their last cabin inspections, and then resume using it once they've moved on down the aisle. I've seen this and taken notice of the reaction of others around me that can clearly see the offender and what they are doing. Not once has anyone else had a sly smirk come across their face that hinted at "oh, I can get away with that too". Nor have I ever had the urge to break out my Zune. The general demeanor is "what a dumbass, he really needs to turn that thing off".
 
I've had the dipleasure of such idiots sitting next to me twice when I was on business trips. First one I reminded him he needed to turn it off and reluctantly he did.

The other tool to me to F off and mind my own business so I pressed the call button and magically he changed his mind.

Then again, I slap my head when I get a text from the wife saying "We're Descending" Doh..... :dunno:
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
If people are going to be dicks, they're going to be dicks, no matter how many examples have been set before their antics.

I personally would have gone Roosevelt on this guy; speak softly, carry a big stick.

Give him 2 very calm but stern warnings, and on the next offense, coordinate with ops on the other end to have the doughnut patrol board the aircraft, cuff him and carry him away. Total surprise to the guy, and accomplishes the same thing. If he was truly just sitting there watching an ipod, he doesn't pose any imminent danger to anyone else aboard the aircraft. If you say he would have hindered an emergency evacuation because of lack of attention, I say human instinct would take over and you'd have nothing to worry about.
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And you know that how? I have several friends in Law Enforcement, It would be considered a really BIG red flag if some one was openly defiant to them. They WOULD consider that person a threat, regardless of what they were doing. It's their actions that speak loudest not activity! Your average person when told by someone in authority will do what is told of them, or at least pretend to until that person of authority walked away. as a captain of a aircraft carrying passengers, I think I would tend to agree that this behavior was a red flag and something had better be done, since this person could obviously NOT act like a civil, rational human being.
 
Lets revisit the seat belt sign thing again:
Often times the seat belt sign rarely gets turned off on an aircraft. When was the last time you saw an FA harping at a PAX when they get up to use the bathroom with the seat belt sign on (provided not on initial ascent or final descent)?
 
The G-Man said:
Lets revisit the seat belt sign thing again:
Often times the seat belt sign rarely gets turned off on an aircraft. When was the last time you saw an FA harping at a PAX when they get up to use the bathroom with the seat belt sign on (provided not on initial ascent or final descent)?
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About two airline trips ago. They should be arrested too. If you can't piddle before you board then hold it for an hour and piddle after you get off, you should be wearing depends.

TFaudree_ERAU said:
How can you deduce that being uncooperative about an ipod will lead to standing up during turbulence?
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You can't. You don't know what else that person is going to do in defiance of a crewmember's instructions. Remove the unknown.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Remove the unknown.

-mini
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The only unknown in the airlines is what time you'll get there.

Seriously though. Removing the unknown would have to start with the first person that gets on the aircraft. You don't know their psychiatric history. They may have stuffed the thousand tiny pieces of their significant other in the trashcan before they left for the airport that morning.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Give him 2 very calm but stern warnings, and on the next offense, coordinate with ops on the other end to have the doughnut patrol board the aircraft, cuff him and carry him away.
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I'm not sure about this particular company but at mine, CA's can't have passengers arrested. It is up to the company. They can have the police remove the passenger but can't force them to file charges or arrest them.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
They may have stuffed the thousand tiny pieces of their significant other in the trashcan before they left for the airport that morning.
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Possibe, but as long as they shut off their i-pod, buckle up when the little light is on and don't cause me any trouble during the flight that's really not my problem.

-mini
 
minitour said:
About two airline trips ago. They should be arrested too. If you can't piddle before you board then hold it for an hour and piddle after you get off, you should be wearing depends.
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This irritates me to no end. Personally, I hate the seat belt sign. I have a very different tolerance for turbulence while standing than someone else might have, so as a captain, do I turn it off for my tolerance level, or the lowest common denominator? They should change the name of the sign to the "limited liability sign."

If you have to go to the bathroom while the sign is on, then by all means, please do. I don't want any of my customers developing medical problems or peeing their pants because I got busy in the cockpit and forgot to turn the sign off.

Now, after that amazing full circle thread hijack, back to the iPod debate.
 
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