Resumption of training

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
So we’ve received guidance that training is going to resume again, which is fine, but emphasis was made that certifications will be made on current traffic levels. That’s freaking ridiculous and dangerous. The busiest hour we have here now is a 20 rate. God help anyone flying into NY area once traffic picks up towards normal levels. Looking on the bright side though, I want every trainee certified in 6 months and my ERR package in before anyone can retire.
 

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
Were training at my Z, we have absolutely no traffic and they've stressed over and over that if we train on this traffic, we have to certify on it also.

Biggest gift to trainees ever, theres going to be some seriously scared/scary controllers working in a few years. Watched a guy get 4 hours of time yesterday and see literally nothing worthwhile. Sign em off!!!
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
Huh? A good friend of mine had his certification delayed at APC Tower several weeks because the ATM didn't want to test him until they had "high" traffic levels to deal with. And TRACONs and Centers are just saying "Well if we have 30% the normal volume of traffic, sign 'em off and they'll figure it out in August 2023 when they have 60+ arrivals\hr into a busy hub. Um, what?
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Huh? A good friend of mine had his certification delayed at APC Tower several weeks because the ATM didn't want to test him until they had "high" traffic levels to deal with. And TRACONs and Centers are just saying "Well if we have 30% the normal volume of traffic, sign 'em off and they'll figure it out in August 2023 when they have 60+ arrivals\hr into a busy hub. Um, what?
this guidance is new so he was probably delayed before it came out
 

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
Huh? A good friend of mine had his certification delayed at APC Tower several weeks because the ATM didn't want to test him until they had "high" traffic levels to deal with. And TRACONs and Centers are just saying "Well if we have 30% the normal volume of traffic, sign 'em off and they'll figure it out in August 2023 when they have 60+ arrivals\hr into a busy hub. Um, what?
There was a tower in FL, I'm like 99% sure it was JAX, where the Management team got busted reaching out to FBO's and local GA guys and having them go up and request some crazy stuff during checkrides on Local, to try to wash people out.

I dont think thats really fair, but training and doing checkrides with absolutely no traffic isnt the answer either. I understand you cant delay certification and training forever, but damn. We're really gonna sign people off that have never had to fix any of the actual challenging scenarios in our sectors.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
We're really gonna sign people off that have never had to fix any of the actual challenging scenarios in our sectors.
hell we don’t have enough traffic to run normal SOP unless management is ok with running someone 40 miles out of the way just so trainees can see how we normally feed
 

PA44totracon

Well-Known Member
hell we don’t have enough traffic to run normal SOP unless management is ok with running someone 40 miles out of the way just so trainees can see how we normally feed
I heard that N90 was giving up a few of the sectors that you guy normally hide new people on to PHL approach, any truth to that?
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
There was a tower in FL, I'm like 99% sure it was JAX, where the Management team got busted reaching out to FBO's and local GA guys and having them go up and request some crazy stuff during checkrides on Local, to try to wash people out.

I dont think thats really fair, but training and doing checkrides with absolutely no traffic isnt the answer either. I understand you cant delay certification and training forever, but damn. We're really gonna sign people off that have never had to fix any of the actual challenging scenarios in our sectors.
Why would they TRY to wash people out? So anyone with a transfer request gets stuck there forever? Sheesh, I was the trainer in the SFO ramp tower, people didn't work nearly as hard to get there as anyone who shows up to an FAA facility and I still did everything I could to try and make people as good as I could and get them through unless they were just a crappy person. In that case, we didn't wait to fail them, just told them "You're a jerk, you're toxic up here" and got rid of them(that was one of the very few benefits of being non-union I guess, we could fire you just because you sucked as a human being). Why anyone in an FAA tower would get their jollies from washing out people who sacrificed so much to get there is beyond me.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
I heard that N90 was giving up a few of the sectors that you guy normally hide new people on to PHL approach, any truth to that?
lol def not where we hide new people. They’ve told us the EWR area, the by far most difficult And complex area in the building if not NAS, is getting moved to PHL. But how they’re planning on actually making that work is beyond me .
 

PA44totracon

Well-Known Member
lol def not where we hide new people. They’ve told us the EWR area, the by far most difficult And complex area in the building if not NAS, is getting moved to PHL. But how they’re planning on actually making that work is beyond me .
Should be good times watching that one play out.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Should be good times watching that one play out.
If it actually happens, which honestly I do hope because get me off this damn island, it probably wouldn’t be til they built a new tower/Tracon at PHL which they were supposed to start but get put on indef hold due to Covid. So I’ll be approaching retirement by the time anything happens if it does at all.a

Last we heard anything we were going to have a conference call with Paul and Trish to discuss it. That was almost 2 months ago.
 

PA44totracon

Well-Known Member
If it actually happens, which honestly I do hope because get me off this damn island, it probably wouldn’t be til they built a new tower/Tracon at PHL which they were supposed to start but get put on indef hold due to Covid. So I’ll be approaching retirement by the time anything happens if it does at all.a

Last we heard anything we were going to have a conference call with Paul and Trish to discuss it. That was almost 2 months ago.
I just heard about it on an e board call down here. It sounds like a rational move after they have not been able to fix the staffing situation for you guys in over a decade. Don't know if you saw my comment in the thread about privatization but this is the kind of thing I was talking about. I can't see the staffing situation you guys had to deal with going on this long, let alone getting to the point of giving away airspace, in a private org. Who knows though haha.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
I just heard about it on an e board call down here. It sounds like a rational move after they have not been able to fix the staffing situation for you guys in over a decade. Don't know if you saw my comment in the thread about privatization but this is the kind of thing I was talking about. I can't see the staffing situation you guys had to deal with going on this long, let alone getting to the point of giving away airspace, in a private org. Who knows though haha.
i don’t know how it’s going to fix the staffing issue since they’re not making us move to PHL either other than maybe more people will transfer to PHL than N90? Unless they’re planning on completely redesigning the airspace so there’s fewer positions.
 

PA44totracon

Well-Known Member
Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying on the call. What I heard was that instead of continue to try and get more staffing to meet the current facility requirements they were going to shrink the size of the facility to the staffing levels the facility has now, ie make it smaller. Giving airspace to PHL sounded like step one, step two was to give some to Boston Center. I didnt really pay too much attention just thought it was interesting.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying on the call. What I heard was that instead of continue to try and get more staffing to meet the current facility requirements they were going to shrink the size of the facility to the staffing levels the facility has now, ie make it smaller. Giving airspace to PHL sounded like step one, step two was to give some to Boston Center. I didnt really pay too much attention just thought it was interesting.
I mean yeah it would artificially raise the staffing at N90 but just make it worse at PHL lol. And per the NATCA email even after EWR area is split off they aren’t adjusting N90’s staffing target number which makes 0 sense
 

cmac88

Well-Known Member
i don’t know how it’s going to fix the staffing issue since they’re not making us move to PHL either other than maybe more people will transfer to PHL than N90? Unless they’re planning on completely redesigning the airspace so there’s fewer positions.
I could definitely see more transfers potentially to phl then N90. I'm from the BoWash area and could fathom moving to Philly but never Long Island. Whether this idea actually works out or goes anywhere..... meh.
 

N90-EWR

Well-Known Member
As a retired N90-EWR controller, I'm gonna be laughing my ass off watching the sh*t show that's going to be, if they do pull the trigger on moving the EWR area to PHL once normal traffic levels resume (whenever that is).

/popcorn
 
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