Response to M Roland

Re: How did they steal it?

[ QUOTE ]

That whole Key Bank pilot loan thingie is pretty sketchy if you ask me.


[/ QUOTE ]

If Key was sketchy, what was ATA? Key certainly didn't make ATA go under. The Williams decision to funnel huge amounts of student tuitions into Discover made ATA go under.
 
Re: How did they steal it?

ATA stopped "funneling" money to Discover in mid 2001, according to a board meeting we had.

Discover was a losing proposition, based on the idea of a guy who came in, sold the idea, then vanished.

If I'm not mistaken he is behind TAB Express Airlines right now.
 
Re: How did they steal it?

They still did it without informing students that money meant solely for flight training was being used to support an airline that they (the students) had no vested interest in. At the time of ATA's closure, Discover still owed ATA $3 million (sworn grand jury testimony by MW), or the equivalent of every dime of tuition from 66 students, which, considering they were only enrolling about 10 students a month during the later stages of operations, is tremendously significant. Regardless of who was the brainchild behind the Discover "operation," it was still a Williams signature that signed the check that sent student funds to Discover, right???

Also, considering that Discover continued to operate after ATA closed (including a $100,000 insurance payment made in March) rather than making any attempt to repay the debt owed to ATA and the students, I'd say ATA did continue to support Discover past December 2001.
 
Re: How did they steal it?

Ah but they did have a vested interest! Remember? They were going to hire ATA grads as FOs!

Sure they didn't repay the debt. How could they? They weren't making any money.

It is true, however, that several ATA grads did become Discover Air charter pilots. They did fly occasionally. I brokered out several charters to them (when I couldn't find anyone else of course!) that went to places like Puerto Plata, Nassau, Charlotte, etc.

I didn't like to use them because they were so screwed up. They didn't know how to invoice, for example. They put ramp fees and user fees in under the FET, which was incorrect, since we need to break out the FET at the end of the year for fuel refunds.

We (Air Orlando Charter) did not like to use them, but there weren't many other sources for large aircraft charters.

I believe we used them as late as Dec 2002.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

John Tenney QUOTE
___________________________________________________
ATA stopped "funneling" money to Discover in mid 2001, according to a board meeting we had.
___________________________________________________
You went to board meetings? That's very interesting. Was that ATA or Discover Air or Discover Air Airlines board meetings? If you were that involved in their businesses, no wonder you are so anxious to cover up for them.

As to funneling money to Discover Air, Melissa Williams testified under oath at the ATA Federal Bankruptcy Creditors' Meeting 5/12/03 that Discover Air owed ATA $3 million. After intense questioning, she finally had to admit that, after ATA had closed, she had written a $100,000 check on the ATA account to pay a Discover Air insurance premium. I'd say that pretty much certifies that the Williams were still funneling ATA money to Discover Air as late as March or April 2003. This money belonged to the students, but no effort was made to return one dime of it to them.

John Tenney QUOTE
___________________________________________________
Ah but they did have a vested interest! Remember? They were going to hire ATA grads as FOs!
___________________________________________________
Of all the companies ATA advertised they had deals with to get their graduates interviews and jobs with, Discover Air was not mentioned in the literature as one of them.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
Of all the companies ATA advertised they had deals with to get their graduates interviews and jobs with, Discover Air was not mentioned in the literature as one of them

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that ATA did not have to most ethical business practices, they DID mention Discover air as an option if Eagle or ASA did not take you. That was pressed on me at least three times when I was looking into going there. When ASA pulled out, they even added the Discover Air logo to the bottom of their web site.

I narrowly dodged the bullet on this, and two of my best friends got seriously burned. One is in Mesa's PACE program in Farmington, NM now, and the other is working 60-70 hours a week with me to pay off his student loans. The second guy did get all the way through ASII and was just waiting on the interview. I think he did his RJ training with Dave Gwinn, and he said he learned a TON from him. He also said the program started to go downhill when Gwinn left.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

Instructor board meetings! LOL no I was not involved in the business
smile.gif


And yes, ATA stopped mentioning Discover in their ads after that funneling stopped. I was never told why, in fact I came in after all that stopped.

Dave DeBerry would have "board meetings" for all the instructors where we could (and did) ask questions about anything we wanted. Rob Williams attended almost all of these and he was very open with details.

He told us that the Discover thing did not work out anywhere near as planned, and you could tell it upset him. I think he felt pretty used by the whole Discover Air idea.

I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too
wink.gif


Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

John Tenney Quote
_________________________________________________
liability extends across corporate lines nowadays
_________________________________________________
I have no idea what you mean. In all the courses I took, every corporation was a separate entity and co-mingling of funds was a no-no.

I got the distinct impression at the ATA Bankruptcy Creditors Meeting 5/12/03 that the Bankruptcy Trustee and the lawyers for the various creditors all felt taking money from one corporation and paying another corporation's bills with it is extremely illegal. Based on the efforts Melissa made to avoid admitting that's what had taken place and her demeanor when they finally trapped her into admitting it, she must have thought it was, too.

I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
I have been warned that, perhaps friends and cohorts of the Williams are making these outrageous statements merely to inflame us enough, that in our rebuttal, we might release information the Williams had not previously known we knew. And, I'm embarrassed to say, it may have been working. However, it will no longer work on me. I will not be refuting any more of these totally inaccurate claims, no matter how ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]
M_Roland - probably a very wise idea considering that the person whose claims you are having to refute is a close, personal friend of the Williams' and was once in their employee.

99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!!

Remember - there are no "moral victories". Be ruthless. Go for the jugular. It's your families financial well-being you are talking about.

Only the best!!!

R2F
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
99.99999% (meaning - all but one individual) on this site, wishes you and all those who got bent over and violated by ATA and/or the Williams' - only the VERY best!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, R2F. That really does mean a lot to us!

smile.gif
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]

I can understand that insurance premium upsetting you, but remember that liability extends across corporate lines nowadays, and I'm sure you would have paid an insurance premium under those circumstances, too
wink.gif


Reflecting on the actions taken, that may have been the smartest move Melissa made.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it sure was a relief to me to know that the bankrupt ATA, with it's locked doors and hundreds upon hundreds of shocked students and employees left with nowhere to go, was still able to drop a paltry hundred grand to keep Discover's insurance policy in effect for another month.

It'd be interesting to get the opinion of the numerous students that had tens of thousands of dollars for PERSONAL LIVING EXPENSES wired to ATA the week they closed shop. They of course never saw a dime out but do still get to repay the loan. I'm sure deep down they were much more interested in seeing that money go to Discover instead of paying for apartment rent, food, car loans, etc.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce.

Do you stick by your word?
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

You guys PM each other about a truce? How lame. I think there is hostility toward you here John because you are friends with some people who were key figures in screwing over a lot of people.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

I wouldn't call them friends. As I said before I knew none of them socially.

I am not saying anything good about the rest of the Williams' because I hardly knew them. I worked with Rob every day and Melissa some, and I think they would have done things much differently if they could have.

No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
\I think they would have done things much differently if they could have.
\


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by "if they could have?"
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
No one here wants to hear anything good about anyone named Williams, however.


[/ QUOTE ] I understand Jason Williams, the X-NBA star, got his trial postponed. (He is accused of killed a limo driver in New Jersey.) So having the trial postponed is a good thing.

Oh, you meant the ATA Williams family? Yeah, nobody cares to hear anything good about them so you should probably just stop.
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
R2F you are getting surly. It certain seems you are displaying hostility towards me, yet in PMs you said recently that we would have a truce.

Do you stick by your word?

[/ QUOTE ]
A few things:

1. No surliness here, John...just calling them as I see them. You are being relentless in your pursuit of a defense for those who are perceived to have swindled a lot of people. In doing so, seems to me that you are coming across as the hostile one. I see it.....Apparently I'm not the only one.

Do the Williams' deserve a defense - absolutely. But so do those who are out their tuitions/living expenses. The road goes both ways.

2. I'm not "displaying hostility towards" you. When someone disagrees with you, please understand that does not constitute an attack. I just don't agree with you and I'm exercising my right to express that.

However you perceive that is your issue. Not mine. You'll note the total lack of (!!!) exclamation points; (
mad.gif
) frowny faces, all-caps or otherwise.

I respect your right to your opinion. I don't agree with it (or most of anything you say) but, that's my right too. Please respect that as well.

3. The word "truce" was never mentioned, so as far as "keeping my word" - I've never broken it. I've not directed any of my posts to you. I've not tried to pick a fight with you, nor do I intend to.

I said I'd leave you alone and I've bitten my tongue on several occasions. But, if you call me out - as you just did - then I am obliged to respond.

To everyone - and to JT - when you put yourself out there and express strong opinions based on "fact" or otherwise - do not be suprised and do not get upset when you get bombarded with dissenting opinions.

If I disagree with anyone on this board, it doesn't mean I'm "evil", "hostile" or "surly" - it means I disagree. Period.

I think we can agree to that.

R2F
 
Re: Money to Discover Air

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think we can agree to that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

heheheheheheheh
grin.gif
 
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