Required Equipment

[TheTopBloke]

1980 Cessna Cutlass 172 RG
Is the CHT gauge required equipment?

The aircraft is certificated under CAR Part 3. I can't find Part 3 anywhere.
Part 23 states, if a reciprocating engine utilized cowl flaps, a CHT is required.
The POH equipment list states the item is required.
It is not required under 91.205.

IMHO, it's required, and until fixed, the aircraft is not airworthy.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Der_Meister]

If its required by the equipment list then yes. check 91.213(d) its not about requited equipment but it does talk about flying with inop equipment.

 

[TheTopBloke]

OK, so we have an item, that is required by the equipment list, and it's inop. It cannot be placarded and disabled, or removed. It has to be fixed, otherwise the aircraft is not airworthy.

 

[Roger Roger]

CAR part 3.675 does also include the requirement for a CHT gauge for an aircraft with cowl flaps and an air cooled engine.
http://www.stacheair.com/data/At Wo...ta Info/CAR's/CAR Part 3/PDF/CAR-PART 03.PDF
You must have said gauge repaired before the aircraft is legal to fly. Thanks to Blackhawk for the link.

 

[Blackhawk]

Please, please, please do not use 91.205. Use 91.213. It seems that you did, but then you state that the equipment list states it is required. Even if the item is not in CAR 3 or FAR 23, if it required under the equipment list it is required to be installed and operational. Good example- what is the battery listed as in the equipment list? Don't have the RG POH with me, bit the N model lists it as a -r item. So it is required to be installed AND operational or the airplane is not airworthy. IOW, if you need a jump start, the battery is probably not operational and the airplane will not comply with the AWC if you desire to fly it.

 

[TheTopBloke]

Please, please, please do not use 91.205. Use 91.213. It seems that you did, but then you state that the equipment list states it is required. Even if the item is not in CAR 3 or FAR 23, if it required under the equipment list it is required to be installed and operational. Good example- what is the battery listed as in the equipment list? Don't have the RG POH with me, bit the N model lists it as a -r item. So it is required to be installed AND operational or the airplane is not airworthy. IOW, if you need a jump start, the battery is probably not operational and the airplane will not comply with the AWC if you desire to fly it.

I think I see what you mean, and this is why the FAR/AIM won't have Part 23 included. In this particular aircraft the battery is in fact required equipment, while in another aircraft that does not have an electrical system it would not be required equipment. This may be beyond the scope of this discussion but it begs the question, are there certificated aircraft that have no electrical systems? I'm excluding LSA and Experimental.

 

[Blackhawk]

Sure. Many CAR 3 did not have electrical systems. Ive flown a few that did not. Now days, however, much less so. I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

 

[Pilotforhire587]

91.213 guys, the four step test, it takes you through how this is done. 91.205 is step 3, don't get ahead of yourself.

 

[Fly_Unity]

91.213 guys, the four step test, it takes you through how this is done. 91.205 is step 3, don't get ahead of yourself.

1. MEL (if you have one)
2. AD's
3. 91.205
4. Equipment list (POH)
5. Removed or deactivated and placarded
6. Determine safe to fly

 

[KDoersom]

I think I see what you mean, and this is why the FAR/AIM won't have Part 23 included. In this particular aircraft the battery is in fact required equipment, while in another aircraft that does not have an electrical system it would not be required equipment. This may be beyond the scope of this discussion but it begs the question, are there certificated aircraft that have no electrical systems? I'm excluding LSA and Experimental.

Ever hear of a Cub, Champ, Cessna 120 etc. lots of aircraft out there without an electrical system that are certified.

 

[Blackhawk]

1. MEL (if you have one)
2. AD's
3. 91.205
4. Equipment list (POH)
5. Removed or deactivated and placarded
6. Determine safe to fly

You forgot a few things that are in 91.213 which is why one should read it.
1. Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment- that is, CAR 3 or FAR 23, depending on when the airplane was certificated. Also would include STC items. For example, if you are using an autopilot that is not factory installed I can just about guarantee that part of the STC or limitation associated with that autopilot is that the manual MUST be on board and within reach of the pilot. Not on board? The airplane is not airworthy. A few of the big ones that can get you in trouble- carb heat, CHT (if cowl flaps are installed), stall horn in FAR 23 airplanes, Pitot heat in FAR 23 airplanes for IFR. Also with the latter. If an airplane was certified under CAR 3 for VFR only and a person wants to subsequently make it legal for IFR it must meet the current regulation- so it would need Pitot heat.
2. Part of the KOL (Kinds of Operations List). I've seen airplanes where GPS is required for night VFR and IFR flight in the KOL.
3. Required by another regulation. For example, transponder when operating in airspace where it is required.

 

[Blackhawk]

Ever hear of a Cub, Champ, Cessna 120 etc. lots of aircraft out there without an electrical system that are certified.

Those are CAR 3 airplanes. Not sure about any FAR 23 airplanes. Again, there may be some out there.

 

[Pilotforhire587]

You forgot a few things that are in 91.213 which is why one should read it.
1. Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment- that is, CAR 3 or FAR 23, depending on when the airplane was certificated. Also would include STC items. For example, if you are using an autopilot that is not factory installed I can just about guarantee that part of the STC or limitation associated with that autopilot is that the manual MUST be on board and within reach of the pilot. Not on board? The airplane is not airworthy. A few of the big ones that can get you in trouble- carb heat, CHT (if cowl flaps are installed), stall horn in FAR 23 airplanes, Pitot heat in FAR 23 airplanes for IFR. Also with the latter. If an airplane was certified under CAR 3 for VFR only and a person wants to subsequently make it legal for IFR it must meet the current regulation- so it would need Pitot heat.
2. Part of the KOL (Kinds of Operations List). I've seen airplanes where GPS is required for night VFR and IFR flight in the KOL.
3. Required by another regulation. For example, transponder when operating in airspace where it is required.

Thanks, I have been off for the last week so I am glad some one else clarified

 

[bb10pilot]

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...4a06437c5fa862569d900744d86/$FILE/Chap1-2.pdf

Go to the second to last page. Excellent flow chart for Part 91 minimum equipment.