Required crew for long haul flights

[Snuggle]

Got to thinking about this from some posts in another thread. As I understand it for flights over 8 hours there has to be a third pilot. Where is the cutoff where the 4th pilot is required? Also, why the need for 2 CA and 2 FO's? Why not 1 CA and 3 FO's? When I jumpseated to BOM, the first Captain I introduced myself to told me that he was "A". I'm assuming he was the senior CA.

 

[OldTownPilot]

12 hours is 4 pilots.

As for the CA vs FO thing the 'cruise CA' must be PIC typed. Having 2 CA/2 FO vs 1 CA/3 FO is a airline to airline thing. CO is 1 CA/3 FO.

 

[Cptnchia]

12 hours is 4 pilots.

<8 hours: 2 pilots; 8 to 12 hours: 3 pilots; >12 hours: 4 pilots

As for the CA vs FO thing the 'cruise CA' must be PIC typed. Having 2 CA/2 FO vs 1 CA/3 FO is a airline to airline thing. CO is 1 CA/3 FO.

2 and 2 requires more crewmembers. Employees want 2 & 2, management wants 1 & 3.

 

[scramjet]

A lot of foreign airlines use Second Officers as relief pilots, some even use Third Officers for the fourth pilot. I'm surprised US airlines haven't tried that to cut costs as Second Officers and Third Officers would obviously have a lower pay rate than additional FOs or CAs. Contractual thing, I would imagine?

 

[EDUC8-or]

How do line checks work?

 

[derg]

More captain jobs on big equipment = gooooooooood.

 

[Cptnchia]

How do line checks work?

Show up, and just do your job. All they are looking for is that you operate per the FARs and Op Spec, follow all policies and procedures. Just like you are supposed to doing it every day.

 

[granlistillo]

Show up, and just do your job. All they are looking for is that you operate per the FARs and Op Spec, follow all policies and procedures. Just like you are supposed to doing it every day.

As an experienced training department bubba, i think he knew that. I don't think that was what he was getting out.

 

[EDUC8-or]

I was curious where the check airman sits and how much of the flight he/she would need to see. For example, at my company since the legs are short I occupy the jumpseat and I need to observe the entire flight. At some companies the required crewmembers have to ride up front for takeoff and landing, so that wouldn't leave a seat for the check airman. I know ideally the line checks would be completed on shorter legs, but sometimes that's not possible. Does a check airman ride along and perform the duties of a required crew member? How much of the flight do they have to observe?

 

[typhoonpilot]

I was curious where the check airman sits and how much of the flight he/she would need to see. For example, at my company since the legs are short I occupy the jumpseat and I need to observe the entire flight. At some companies the required crewmembers have to ride up front for takeoff and landing, so that wouldn't leave a seat for the check airman. I know ideally the line checks would be completed on shorter legs, but sometimes that's not possible. Does a check airman ride along and perform the duties of a required crew member? How much of the flight do they have to observe?

I work for an airline that does a lot of ultra long haul flying. Line checks are not done on the ULR sectors, they are done on short sectors.

Our rules are different than the above quoted FAA regs. Ours go by number of sectors flown and start time of the duty day, as well as whether one is acclimitized to the time zone or not. Our limits are duty time limits only, not flight time. Two pilots routinely fly over 8 hours on single sector flights and occasionally on two sector days. Generally speaking we are 3 pilots from 10 to 12 hours and 4 pilots over 12 hours. We use two captains and two first officers when it is a four pilot crew.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Snuggle]

Interesting information.

Typhoon, what's the longest ULR sector at your company?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Interesting information.

Typhoon, what's the longest ULR sector at your company?

It's between DXB-IAH and DXB-LAX, both right around 16:45.


TP