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CFIT99 said:
how are people not understanding this, it is incredibly easy, YOU WON'T GO BELOW 75 HOURs!

If my entire month is cancelled I still will get 75 hours credit

so if you bid only 75 hr lines...then you have nothing to lose and don't care if you get cancelled. (although you will lose the per diem, but that is everywhere)
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It's because of common declarations on the line such as this "I lost so much to cancellations last month!" You can't lose anything you have not earned, yet. Cancellation pay allows that to happen, but since we don't have that, nothing is lost, technically.
 
falconvalley said:
It's because of common declarations on the line such as this "I lost so much to cancellations last month!" You can't lose anything you have not earned, yet. Cancellation pay allows that to happen, but since we don't have that, nothing is lost, technically.
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Because You can "lose alot due to cancellations"! if you bid for 95 hours you can lose alot!

20hrs X $23.00 = $460

throw in per diem a four days is roughly 90 hrs, 90hrs X 1.65 = 148.5

148.5 + 460 = $608.5 lost that month....and thats only 1st year FO pay (that is 90% of my 1st of the month paycheck)

Make that a 10 yr captain pay 20hrs X $90.00 = $1800 + 148.5 = $1948 Lost that month.

It can be some good chedder...
 
falconvalley said:
You can't lose anything you have not earned, yet. Cancellation pay allows that to happen, but since we don't have that, nothing is lost, technically.
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The thing you are not understanding is that most of the time you are still at work and not being paid. During the last hurricane to hit the East coast, I was stuck in JAN for four days but I was lucky enough to be on reserve. So I, at least, was paid 4 hours each day while everyone else in the crew lost all pay for their 4-day. So they spent 4-days away from home and only were paid around 5 hours plus whatever they got in per diem (which is just to cover food costs of being on the road).

Most of the time, when you lose the pay it will be for an out and back. So you sit around the airport for 6 hours and don't get paid. In any other profession, if you are forced to stay at work and you will get paid. Why is it acceptable in the aviation industry? Brian Bedford and Wayne Heller always get paid when they show up to work and the company still gets paid when the flight cancels.

Pilots did earn that money by being ready and available. Just because the company is having them sit and not fly doesn't mean they shouldn't be compensated for their time. Its already a messed up situation that we don't get paid the entire time we are on duty.
 
CFIT99 said:
Because You can "lose alot due to cancellations"! if you bid for 95 hours you can lose alot!

20hrs X $23.00 = $460

throw in per diem a four days is roughly 90 hrs, 90hrs X 1.65 = 148.5

148.5 + 460 = $608.5 lost that month....and thats only 1st year FO pay (that is 90% of my 1st of the month paycheck)

Make that a 10 yr captain pay 20hrs X $90.00 = $1800 + 148.5 = $1948 Lost that month.

It can be some good chedder...
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flyinggreasemnky said:
The thing you are not understanding is that most of the time you are still at work and not being paid. During the last hurricane to hit the East coast, I was stuck in JAN for four days but I was lucky enough to be on reserve. So I, at least, was paid 4 hours each day while everyone else in the crew lost all pay for their 4-day. So they spent 4-days away from home and only were paid around 5 hours plus whatever they got in per diem (which is just to cover food costs of being on the road).

Most of the time, when you lose the pay it will be for an out and back. So you sit around the airport for 6 hours and don't get paid. In any other profession, if you are forced to stay at work and you will get paid. Why is it acceptable in the aviation industry? Brian Bedford and Wayne Heller always get paid when they show up to work and the company still gets paid when the flight cancels.

Pilots did earn that money by being ready and available. Just because the company is having them sit and not fly doesn't mean they shouldn't be compensated for their time. Its already a messed up situation that we don't get paid the entire time we are on duty.
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Guys, you are preaching to the choir. I'm fully aware of how the pay works, but the simple fact is that at RAH, without cancellation pay, you have one less tool to credit over 75 and get paid over 75. Because of this, your 95 hour "award" doesn't exist as pay until it is fully "vested" as your monthly credit. Generally speaking, as much as I hate it and think we deserve better, I don't count on 95 hours of credit simply because our contract doesn't guarantee all of that unless I fly it or get reserve credit (or whatnot). A lot of pilots DO count on their award being fully realized and because of that, see cancellations and such as "losing" it. I don't. I never had it. I'm not arguing entitlement philosophy here. I get the impression you guys feel that way and believe me, I want cancellation pay. I'm arguing contract enforcement and my way of approaching these problems. I simply don't view a monthly award as set in stone pay wise because of it. I can literally turn that ideal off and argue that it's wrong, just as you do, though. I just happen to plan my financial life around realistic expectations. If those change in the near future, good :)
 
Johnny150 said:
Thank you much I am excited to start any advice?
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I just finished up S5 training last week, did my type ride last thursday and my LOFT sat morn, leaving for IOE in a few days. Advice; be ready not to go home for over a month, no one in my class of 9 got their ID's until the 5-6th week and our travel bene's didn't kick in until about 4 weeks. If I had to do it over again I would have a bit more fun during indoc at Indy i.e. don't stress that stuff but def pay attention. Be sure to work your ass off at flight safety, know your flows and limitations/memory items INSIDE OUT and be able to deliver them at RAPID FIRE speed. Be assertive and show command authority in the SIM, they are very big on that esp in the checkride. Guys get tossed for being vags'. Especially if you are getting a full type out of it. Two guys busted their check rides that I know of in my class of 9 and there is still one more who hasn't taken his ride yet.

Good Luck and have fun with it. It's definitely a bear but interesting. Btw this was my first 121 training environment and overall I enjoyed it.
 
zulu99 said:
I just finished up S5 training last week, did my type ride last thursday and my LOFT sat morn, leaving for IOE in a few days. Advice; be ready not to go home for over a month, no one in my class of 9 got their ID's until the 5-6th week and our travel bene's didn't kick in until about 4 weeks. If I had to do it over again I would have a bit more fun during indoc at Indy i.e. don't stress that stuff but def pay attention. Be sure to work your ass off at flight safety, know your flows and limitations/memory items INSIDE OUT and be able to deliver them at RAPID FIRE speed. Be assertive and show command authority in the SIM, they are very big on that esp in the checkride. Guys get tossed for being vags'. Especially if you are getting a full type out of it. Two guys busted their check rides that I know of in my class of 9 and there is still one more who hasn't taken his ride yet.

Good Luck and have fun with it. It's definitely a bear but interesting. Btw this was my first 121 training environment and overall I enjoyed it.
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Thanks good advice
 
Another thing on the cx pay issue that's come up but I'll say it again. If your flights get cancelled and you get rescheduled you get the greater of the resked or your original flying. Don't get me wrong its not as good as cx pay but it helps...

Example 1: during Sandy I initially lost 2 full days of flying at the end of my 4 day (initially lost 12 hrs). I sat out of base for one day, then on the last I was limoed home (about a 3 hr drive) which counts as a resked, I gained back the 7 hrs that was sked on day 4. Net loss: 5 hrs

Example 2: Day 1, Leg 1 we have a maintanence issue causing a 3 hr delay and I lost 2 legs (out and back from DCA to GSO) since there was no resked we just overnighted in DCA, I lost about 3 hrs.
 
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