Republic buying Frontier

I could make a sarcastic comment, but I think I'll just look into my crystal ball and predict with confidence that nothing good will come from this.
 
I maybe he was waiting to see which he could get first, Frontier or Midwest. Who knows? Maybe he just wants a collection. Frontier with the Airbus, Midwest with the Boeing/MDs, and Lynx with the Q400.

Quite a collection...
 
This was posted by a Frontier pilot on another board....

We just received a letter from our union basically stating that Republic is demanding "unlimited scope relief" and many other changes to our current CBA....

"Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."

Thats is because they will throw out our current rates and happily put a RAH FO on a $36/ hr rate on the Airbus.



This just make me sick. Frontier is a great company with a good product. I really, really, really hate RAH! There I said it. Apparently there are rumors of Frontier opening a MKE base...... Hmmmm......
 
CRJDriver said:
"Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."
Click to expand...

Before everyone gets their panties in a wad over an internet forum post, re read my posts from the NMB Merger Protocols, the CHQ CBA merger protocols, the following RAH scope, and I can't get it to post, but the F9 CBA (which in BK may not be too much of an issue).

It's time to WORK TOGETHER to make the RAH contract the major level contract it should be. Not start pointing fingers.

This is may be the ONLY OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO

RAH scope said:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.

2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newly acquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.

3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.

A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.

4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
Click to expand...
 
Enter some need for Regional scope.

The day I see a pilot accept $36 an hour to fly an Airbus for ANY reason is the day I.. well.. damn.

I can't think of something suitably demonstrative of my venom towards that idea.

Yeah.. that crap won't stand with me.
 
Good or bad. If Repubic tries to operate Frontier as a "separate" subsidiary they will be in violation of their pilot scope which says they fly any RAH subsidiary. Minus the payrates which do not exist yet, according to RAH scope they should be flying for Frontier as well. It looks like that's where this is going. They had no problem doing it to Midwest, so it's no surprise.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Enter some need for Regional scope.

The day I see a pilot accept $36 an hour to fly an Airbus for ANY reason is the day I.. well.. damn.

I can't think of something suitably demonstrative of my venom towards that idea.

Yeah.. that crap won't stand with me.
Click to expand...
"But we're in negotiations..."
 
Clocks said:
"But we're in negotiations..."
Click to expand...

They better try to make a plan to what happens with the F9 pilots and Midwest guys as well. I mean if they take both over and try to intergrate them.... A lot of RAH guys will be out of jobs, and current RAH captains down to FO's..... Doesnt F9 have like 60 on the street and midwest 250ish? With F9 losing 6 more planes which I'd assume means more cuts? Just sounds like a bunch of loop holes.
 
any integration would likely have fences for a while, I'd think. But, even not -- seniority list integration is always a contentious issue, just look at Airways.
 
meyers9163 said:
They better try to make a plan to what happens with the F9 pilots and Midwest guys as well. I mean if they take both over and try to intergrate them.... A lot of RAH guys will be out of jobs, and current RAH captains down to FO's..... Doesnt F9 have like 60 on the street and midwest 250ish? With F9 losing 6 more planes which I'd assume means more cuts? Just sounds like a bunch of loop holes.
Click to expand...

There are merger protocols in CBA and the Allegheny-Mohawk.

Read up on those.
 
meyers9163 said:
True... but has there ever been a MAINLINE/MAJOR pilot group being taken over by a regional?
Click to expand...

What are you basing it on? Size of the company in terms of revenues or size of the airplanes a company flies?

RAH is a lot larger than F9, although it flies smaller planes.

US Airways took over Piedmont and got the 757s and 767s, IIRC.
 
Polar742 said:
What are you basing it on? Size of the company in terms of revenues or size of the airplanes a company flies?

RAH is a lot larger than F9, although it flies smaller planes.

US Airways took over Piedmont and got the 757s and 767s, IIRC.
Click to expand...

I dont care what the SIZE of a company is. When MAINLINE aircraft pilots are being taken out by a company that flyings regional aircraft (or so we call them that) with piss poor wages is more so what I'm referring to...
 
meyers9163 said:
I dont care what the SIZE of a company is. When MAINLINE aircraft pilots are being taken out by a company that flyings regional aircraft (or so we call them that) with piss poor wages is more so what I'm referring to...
Click to expand...

Well, again, the RAH contract is open.

There are merger protocols.

There is no reason that the group should vote in a crap contract with "piss poor" wages. However, those "piss poor" wages were the cost of the scope that prevents multiple airlines with multiple seniority lists with multiple CBAs under one holding company.

You can't tell me you can look at an airline the size of PSA today and say in 6 years it's going to be buying 2nd tier operations. It's not even a sane thought.

They have the leverage now, since BB's empire is rapidly approaching a critical stage. Hopefully my former coworkers will capitalize on this and get the workrules tweaked, keep scope, and get the wages in line where they should be.

So to whine and complain before the group has had a chance to get the CBA is pointless, and pretty much populist drivel.

Right now, supporting them and encouraging them in a positive way to attain what they need will be the best solution, IMO.

From last Sept: http://forums.jetcareers.com/961083-post88.html
 
Polar, I've read pretty much the exact same scope clause in the Pinnacle contract. I hope they get a better arbitrator than we did on the PCL/Colgan deal, because they pretty much wussed out on it. THIS is what concerns me:

During the period of separate operations pilots on the
Chautauqua Pilots System Seniority List prior to the merger,
purchase, or acquisition shall operate all aircraft on hand at
the Company, all aircraft on firm order to the Company and
all aircraft acquired by the Company other than as a result of
the transaction after public announcement of the acquisition
in accordance with this Agreement, provided however that
nothing herein shall be construed to prevent fleet reductions
which are attributable to economic or other reasons and
conditions not related to the transaction, or the retirement of
existing aircraft in the normal course of business.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking you could call Midwest and Frontier aircraft as part of the transaction, therefore I think they'll argue until the Earth falls into the sun that they can operate them separately under the agreement. Personally, since this is apparently going to happen, I'd like to see it all under one group on one seniority list with a MAJOR level contract. If that happens, congrats to the guys currently at RAH. You hit the lottery. If it falls short of a major level contract, it's gonna get ugly.
 
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