Reporting a termination & arrest-help please

wes

New Member
Hello all. Im new to this- in fact, took a while to figure out how to post. I must admit- I signed up for a few specific reasons- the first getting all of your advice about the above referenced question. So thanks for having me.
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Anyway, I come from a mixed background of 121,135 and 91, but have always been taught to put all your employment history on your resume and applications. I have recently found myself in a very precarious situation. It has been a tough year, and while I don feel like divulging all of my secrets in a VERY small community- heres the general idea:
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I have up until recently HAD a pretty good record (no speeding tickets, no terminations, no arrests, no DUI, no failed check rides). This year, I was terminated which was closely related to me being arrested.
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I have been in aviation for the better part of 15 years now and have always spoke the truth. Recently, given this current market, the pickings are becoming quite slim. I have decided to put a spin on my actual story about my arrest in hopes of making it seem not as bad (disorderly conduct), but am STRONGLY contemplating completely leaving the termination from the employer out. In fact leaving that whole period of time (a few months) off all applications and my resume. Although the experience would have been nice to have-I may be able to somehow count it. I don’t know what the PRIA research reveals, and am looking for some input. I didn’t spend that much time with that employer and it was immediately after a stint of being unemployed. My logic here, is that the arrest is bad enough without explaining a termination, even if they are intertwined. Remember- this market is VERY tough right now and I am trying to stay in aviation.
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Initially I was also struggling with the idea of not even reporting the arrest because it JUST got processed and wont show up on an initial screening. Considering that I am desperate and unemployed and would pass an initial screening- I thought it wasn’t a bad idea. Please let me know your opinion on that too (although, I;m pretty sure I made up my mind to self disclose). I know that I am new to this forum, but any info would help. Thanks.
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
I'm not sure what you want us to say. I'm not recommending that you do this thing (honestly, I wouldn't), but if you do it, you want to take it with you to your grave. Message boards have a detrimental affect on secrecy, I've found.
 

BrewMaster

Well-Known Member
You may be safe with the whole "Don't ask, don't tell" idea, but having a 2 month gap in your employment history will look weird. There is a possibility that they will ask what you did in that amount of time. Was it an aviation related job that you got fired from?
 

Boris Badenov

Just running in to a burning house...
PS. As BrewMaster points out, it might be a good idea to get a copy of your PRIA paperwork before you decide how to proceed.
 

zmiller4

Well-Known Member
I don’t know what the PRIA research reveals, and am looking for some input. I didn’t spend that much time with that employer and it was immediately after a stint of being unemployed. My logic here, is that the arrest is bad enough without explaining a termination, even if they are intertwined. Remember- this market is VERY tough right now and I am trying to stay in aviation. [/FONT][/SIZE]
If you were working for an air carrier, I think you'd be making an extremely bad decision to not disclose the termination. PRIA should show it:

49 CFR 44something said:
(B) AIR CARRIER AND OTHER RECORDS. From any air carrier or other person, except a branch of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, or a reserve component of the United States Armed Forces, that has employed the individual as a pilot of a civil or public aircraft at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application of the individual, or from the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or person...

(III) any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment.
Own up to it. They'll fire you when they find out about it if you try to hide it, so I'd just get it over with now.
 

germb747

Well-Known Member
I have decided to put a spin on my actual story about my arrest in hopes of making it seem not as bad (disorderly conduct), but am STRONGLY contemplating completely leaving the termination from the employer out.
No offense, but that puts you in the same category as everyone else who tries to hide their past from potential employers. You'll probably get caught.
 

LaBeef

New Member
and while I don feel like divulging all of my secrets in a VERY small community-
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Hope you're being sarcastic with the comment above.. you'd have no idea how many people (pilots, recruiters, AME's etc) keep up with these forums...
 

CTFlyer

Well-Known Member
Find an aviation attorney

I'd recommend finding an aviation attorney, and find out what will be reported in your background checks. I also would stay away from posting personal information on the internet.
 

Velocipede

New Member
Re: Find an aviation attorney

Its never a good idea to try to hide something. If you get a job and they find out, you're fired for lying on your application.

Just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
 

psalm91

New Member
I recommend not adding "lying" to your previous mistakes. Yes, divulging your information may not exactly set the right tone, so put your best foot forward, let them know TRUTHFULLY what happened, state your regrets and how it will never happen again (and don't script it....just speak truthfully and sincerely) and then let the chips fall where they may. Better to be truthful and face up to what happened than to be found a liar; so don't go there.

After the cat is out of the bag, and assuming you have a good track record with the FAA (i.e. no incidents/accidents) and airmanship (i.e. not a lot of failed checkrides, etc.) I would do my best to get the focus on that and pass off what happened with your employer as a regretable "I will never let that happen again" incident -- BUT whatever you do, do NOT go out of your way to blame the other party...if they did you wrong, okay, but refrain from going over the top and beating them up for it...in fact I would find *something* positive to say about them, where you think things went wrong, what YOU would have done differently, how you wish it wouldn't have got out of hand, and that's it; move on to better subjects.

Hope that helps and GL.
 

skydog

New Member
The truth shall set you free. Like it or not, you're fault or not, these things have happened. Update your resume with the truth, and then move forward. Your career may be over. But if you lie, get hired, and then the truth is learned, your career IS over, and you'll have another black mark on your record.
 

dl4292

Well-Known Member
Everyone has offered you great advised and are absolutely right. My experience in HR is if you tell the truth and can ARTICULATE your termination, you might have a chance. If you are not hired due to your termination you might be able to re-apply after time. In short, if you blatantly lie, you might be screwed for life, (case in point) an applicant tried to apply as a “pilot-officer” a couple years ago. He was caught in a lie during his background investigation and now he has been flagged as NEVER APPLY AGAIN. If this person would have told the truth and not stuck to his lie, he might have gotten hired. Most of us have some sort of issues with our past, I sure do. Tell the truth, answer the questions truthfully but don’t volunteer info either.
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Jayrock

Well-Known Member
I agree with what many have already said: Tell the truth.

Note that most employment applications will ask whether you have been convicted of a crime and if you have ever been arrested. Even with an expunged record, it's going to be very difficult to get past the arrest question. And if you choose to omit the information, it may simply come to bite you in the rear when you least expect it. I've seen a number of people get tagged in various industries after they have been hired. Additionally, another mark on your past and things will just get tougher and tougher. One thing you may want to consider is hiring a lawyer and reviewing the specifics.

One other thing I'd like to add is that information is very easy to come by, and that all background checks are not created equal. What doesn't show up for one person, may in fact show up for another.

Best of luck to you.

Jason
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Find an aviation attorney

I'd recommend finding an aviation attorney, and find out what will be reported in your background checks. I also would stay away from posting personal information on the internet.
I would get a good aviation attorney and a good career consultant.

wes, to some degree I'm not completely sure what you are saying. Let's use the "termination" as an example. Are you talking about not listing something like "terminated for cause" on your resume or lying in response to a direct question about it on an application or interview? Or just not mentioning the job at all on either?

Those three things are very different. I really can't imagine putting anything about a former position other than employer, dates of employment, and a description of duties on a resume (unless I did something special - in a good way). OTOH, an outright lie in response to a legitimate question is rarely a good idea. Hiding something relevant is between those two extremes, as is spinning something bad into something positive.

Spin can be especially problematic - we rarely see ourselves as others see us and I've seen more than one person who, when spinning a situation in a way that sounded brilliant to him, had everyone listening thinking, "what a jerk!."

So, you are truly faced with a dilemma. You may indeed have some events in your life that can be career-ending. Or you can be making a mountain out of a molehill and the way you deal with the events become a bigger career issue than the events themselves.

That's why I joined CTFlyer's recommendation for an attorney to look at the legal part and added a career consultant for a "reality check".
 

wes

New Member
WOW-geez- all one has to do is put “arrest” and “help” in the thread title and watch all the responses. Its been not even 24 hours and I SOOOOOO appreciate all the input. You all are great. I was hoping for as much. Let me clarify.
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Midlife- I was meaning to not mention anything at all about my employment with the company I was terminated from.
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Of course we all should tell the truth- I have never lied on paperwork or an interview, I am now contemplating lying by omission and wanted some opinions. I want to omit my employer which I was terminated from on my resume and application. I was not to sure if that would show up somewhere. A few month gap in employment (especially in this market is quite explainable-been on unemployment).
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Does anyone know how to get PRIA records? I will consult with an attorney and career counselor-thanks for the input.
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I was CONTEMPLATING responding “NO” to the question “do I have a criminal record” because there is currently no record YET!!
But if someone asked if I have been arrested, I would obviously state “yes”.
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Zmiller4:
Originally Posted by 49 CFR 44something <o:p></o:p>
(B) AIR CARRIER AND OTHER RECORDS. From any air carrier or other person, except a branch of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, or a reserve component of the United States Armed Forces, that has employed the individual as a pilot of a civil or public aircraft at any time during the 5-year period preceding the date of the employment application of the individual, or from the trustee in bankruptcy for such air carrier or person...

(III) any release from employment or resignation, termination, or disqualification with respect to employment.<o:p></o:p>


Is that from the employer or employees standpoint? Are ALL employers required to report each employer to someone?
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laBeef- we may be misunderstanding each other-my point is that regardless of how many people are on this forum, the aviation community in general is quite small.
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Psalm91-good advice, thank you
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Deniz-uh, I'm not to sure if that will work-maybe for an interview that I didn’t want, but uh, yea, thanksJ
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As for spinning something bad into something good- that seems like my only chance at acquiring a job now, so in reference to my arrest, I believe I may attempt that-trust me it still wont be that positive, just maybe a tad bit helpful.
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Thank you all for you immediate response- it is definitely appreciated.
Wes

PS-im not the guy who mooned oncoming traffic:)
 

SpiceWeasel

Tre Kronor
PS-im not the guy who mooned oncoming traffic:)
As long as your not on some sort of dash cam or police footage drunk off your rear I think you're in a much better position then that guy.

Why even call it "lying" by omission. I don't think you should be obligated to put all your work history on your resumé. I know it's unrelated, but I don't put my time at a grocery store on my CV anymore. I think the next job I have I won't put my job at my university. I think it's a matter of personal preference.
 
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