Renting a Plane and Having Someone Else Pay For It

R

Revolutionist

New Member
I am a Commercial-Rated pilot. If I rent an aircraft, can a friend pay for the entire cost of the rental fee? I will not be asking for compensation. He wants a local aerial tour...

Thanks!
 
Revolutionist said:
I am a Commercial-Rated pilot. If I rent an aircraft, can a friend pay for the entire cost of the rental fee? I will not be asking for compensation. He wants a local aerial tour...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Short answer. No.

Long answer, you, as the non commercial rated pilot, must pay for your share of the flight. Two of you flying, you must pay for half of the rental costs and any thing else incurred during the flight.

Sec. 61.113

Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and
(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.
 

You do realize this is a public forum? While I understand what you're saying, trying to loophole a rule is just bad taste in public, or private. PM it next time, or better yet just stay on the legal side of things.
 
i don't see a problem in the question here
the guy says he is a commercial rated pilot .
my question to you is : why would you want anybody to know your business ?
 
TWF said:
i don't see a problem in the question here
the guy says he is a commercial rated pilot .
my question to you is : why would you want anybody to know your business ?
Click to expand...


Because it's not legal. Remember those three rules. Are you providing the plane? Were you soliciting? Is it a long term contract? And if the rule is yes to any of those it isn't legal.

It's my understanding that a commercial pilot rented the plane, even though another person is paying for it, the pilot is still providing the plane.

I may be wrong though.

This doesn't really help, but it's pretty interesting: http://www.aerotech.net/stuffforCFI/commercial_pilot_decision_tree2.pdf
 
Revolutionist said:
I am a Commercial-Rated pilot. If I rent an aircraft, can a friend pay for the entire cost of the rental fee? I will not be asking for compensation. He wants a local aerial tour...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Matt13C said:
Short answer. No.

Long answer, you, as the non commercial rated pilot, must pay for your share of the flight. Two of you flying, you must pay for half of the rental costs and any thing else incurred during the flight.

Sec. 61.113

Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.
(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and
(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.
(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.
Click to expand...

Bolded text added.
 
Revolutionist said:
I am a Commercial-Rated pilot. If I rent an aircraft, can a friend pay for the entire cost of the rental fee? I will not be asking for compensation. He wants a local aerial tour...

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Yes but....you will have to do a "drug testing program" and have an LOA from the FAA.
119.1 (e) (2) said:
Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter.
Click to expand...


14 CFR 91.147 said:
(a) For the purposes of this section and for drug and alcohol testing, Operator means any person conducting nonstop passenger-carrying flights in an airplane or helicopter for compensation or hire in accordance with §§119.1(e)(2), 135.1(a)(5), or 121.1(d), of this chapter that begin and end at the same airport and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport.
(b) An Operator must comply with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter, and apply for and receive a Letter of Authorization from the Flight Standards District Office nearest to its principal place of business by September 11, 2007.
(c) Each application for a Letter of Authorization must include the following information:
(1) Name of Operator, agent, and any d/b/a (doing-business-as) under which that Operator does business;
(2) Principal business address and mailing address;
(3) Principal place of business (if different from business address);
(4) Name of person responsible for management of the business;
(5) Name of person responsible for aircraft maintenance;
(6) Type of aircraft, registration number(s), and make/model/series; and
(7) An Antidrug and Alcohol Misuse Prevention Program registration.
(d) The Operator must register and implement its drug and alcohol testing programs in accordance with part 120 of this chapter.
(e) The Operator must comply with the provisions of the Letter of Authorization received.
Click to expand...
 
As a commercial pilot, if the flight is your friends idea/request then I would make him pay for the cost (no profit). Now if it was your idea and he is coming along I would share the cost. That whole 91.147 is for providing sightseeing to the public for profit. You are not holding out to the public so I don't think the feds really care.
 
Easier option? Get him to rent the aircraft and hire you as a contract pilot.
 
subpilot said:
As a commercial pilot, if the flight is your friends idea/request then I would make him pay for the cost (no profit). Now if it was your idea and he is coming along I would share the cost. You are not holding out to the public so I don't think the feds really care.
Click to expand...

But you're forgetting about providing the plane, because he's providing the plane it would be holding out.

Easier option? Get him to rent the aircraft and hire you as a contract pilot.
Click to expand...

They rent planes to non pilots?

Ok, I see this often. A SINGLE FAA employee gave this as an opinion. FAA Legal has not, unless you have some documentation I have not seen.
Click to expand...

Just ask the FSDO; if they don't give you an answer you like, ask another.
 
Revolutionist said:
I am a Commercial-Rated pilot. If I rent an aircraft, can a friend pay for the entire cost of the rental fee? I will not be asking for compensation. He wants a local aerial tour...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't think many other people here read your post correctly. But, before you take my advice on this, realize that I am not a lawyer, and could be completely off on all this. Contact AOPA's legal services department to get a more professional opinion.

Now, having stated that, there are different ways for the flight to be legal.
- If you want to just do aerial tours, you'd have to meet the requirements of 119.1(e)(2) and thus 91.147.
- If, however, the purpose of the flight is aerial photography, you could perform it under 119.1(e)(14)(iii) without going through all the paperwork stuff.
- If your friend can get a plane for himself, then you are golden. You can do whatever you want, as you are just being compensated for your piloting service. If, however, he comes to you and asks you were to rent the plane from, or if you set up the rental, you and the aircraft owner become some sort of pseudo 135 operator in the eyes of the FAA. Don't do it.
- Pay your pro-rata share.

I'm sure there are a few other ways to go about it, but those are what I could come up with off the top of my head.
 
msmspilot said:
Ok, I see this often. A SINGLE FAA employee gave this as an opinion. FAA Legal has not, unless you have some documentation I have not seen.
Click to expand...

Actually, legal has stated this over and over again throughout the years. Just grabbing one instance from this letter:
With respect to conducting the flights for compensation, your request notes that the pilot, who holds an ATP certificate, argues that any time logged on these flights should not count as compensation because building general aviation flying time in a Cessna 172 does not advance his career. Generally, accrual of flight time is compensation and the FAA does not enter into a case by-case analysis to determine whether the logging of flight time is of value to a particular pilot. (Legal Interpretation to John W. Harrington, from Donald Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel (Oct.23, 1997) [1997-23].

​
 
Adler said:
They rent planes to non pilots?
Click to expand...
If I was an FBO, and the renter could provide a pilot who was approved by my insurance, I would. It seems like it would be a good service to offer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top