Renter's insurance

D

daniel10

Well-Known Member
I have my COM-ASEL/MEL IA and CFI and about 220 hours, all of which I have flown at the school I got my ratings at.

I thought it would be fun to get a tail-wheel endorsement, in a Piper Cub and there by be able to do it in a cost effective way (in relative terms...).
My school does not do that so I called a different school, and they told me I need renters insurance to take their Cub, as I will be liable for damages if I do crappy landings. I have never actually rented a plane before outside of my school, and AOPA's insurance pages were somewhat confusing as to what I actually need or what amount of coverage I really need.
I don't plan to rent planes very often and it does not make sense to pay several hundred dollars for insurance for a hundred dollar rental.
Just to clarify - I am only talking about damage insurance, medically I am covered.
Any advice? what do you guys do?

Thanks in advance!
 
If I recall correctly, the aspects of medical coverage are specific to each policy. I would call the AOPA and I am sure they can answer all your questions better than most here.

Good luck!
 
daniel10 said:
...I called a different school, and they told me I need renters insurance to take their Cub, as I will be liable for damages if I do crappy landings.
Click to expand...

Ummm, something isn't right here. Are you sure the person you spoke with wasn't giving you the requirements for solo flight in the Cub? Until you get the tailwheel endorsement you aren't the legal PIC for the flight, the CFI is. If you aren't the legal PIC your renter's insurance doesn't cover a pilot error--the CFI's insurance covers a pilot error.
 
That sounded wrong to me too, so I made it very clear and asked him if I was being instructed in their plane, with their instructor in the plane with me, if I was still liable in case of damage and he said yes.
 
daniel10 said:
That sounded wrong to me too, so I made it very clear and asked him if I was being instructed in their plane, with their instructor in the plane with me, if I was still liable in case of damage and he said yes.
Click to expand...

What can I say? AFAIK, no rental policy will pay if the insured pilot is not the legal PIC and could not legally be the legal PIC. Ask the school to show you a renters policy that would cover such an event.
 
daniel10 said:
That sounded wrong to me too, so I made it very clear and asked him if I was being instructed in their plane, with their instructor in the plane with me, if I was still liable in case of damage and he said yes.
Click to expand...
That is at least potentially correct. Two examples:

1. Contract: they have you sign an agreement under which you specifically agree to be responsible for mishaps while you are receiving instruction even though it is not your fault. Frankly, I've never seen one like that and would head fore the nearest exist if I did.

2. Normal legal liability. We are all responsible for what we do. Suppose, for example, that you were in the landing flare and purposely pushed the nose over slamming the prop into the ground. Don't you think you would be responsible for the damage?

You may be able to get renter coverage for your situation. The only way to know for sure is to contact the rental insurance companies. Some will require you to be PIC; some won't.

That said, a flight school is probably going to have a tough time trying to hold a "student" liable in an accident during which the student is taking instruction from once of the school's instructors in order to develop competence.
 
I'd highly advise picking up some renter's insurance. I got mine through AOPA and it runs me $312 for a million bucks in liability coverage and $5,000 in aircraft damage coverage. And I will get a ten percent discount for not bending any metal over the past year. So I'm paying less than a buck a day for coverage to cover my ass just in case. I think it's worth every penny.

Why the $5,000? Because that's the deductible on the club's insurance policy, and then their policy kicks in. So I only wanted to cover that amount of damage.
 
tonyw, that doesn't sound bad at all. Good for you for going the extra distance and getting well covered. I'm not flying a whole lot right now, but that's somthing to look into.

The a/c I trained and recieved my ppl in is still based at my home airport. The owner of the plane used to carry renters insurance, and I used to fly it very cheaply on weekends. He's a friend of mine so as long as I stopped by BMG and topped off with the cheapest fuel around, he only charged me fuel cost to fly. He's since dropped his rental insurance policy, and just flys it personally.
Quick insurance question: Just on the insurance side of things, if I had a renters policy similar to tonyw's, would that fulfill the need for coverage? If that's not clear: Is their a difference between the renters insurance an aircraft owner renting his plane out has, and the insurance I would need to rent his plane if he didn't carry renters insurance on his own?
 
AP2B said:
Quick insurance question: Just on the insurance side of things, if I had a renters policy similar to tonyw's, would that fulfill the need for coverage? If that's not clear: Is their a difference between the renters insurance an aircraft owner renting his plane out has, and the insurance I would need to rent his plane if he didn't carry renters insurance on his own?
Click to expand...

The policy I have is a personal nonowned aircraft policy, which covers my flying in any airplane that I do not have a 1/16th or greater ownership interest in.

Which is why the club planes are covered -- I have an ownership interest, but with about 60 club members, it's a 1/60th ownership interest.

So, in your case, with you flying a friend's airplane, you would be covered. You don't own the plane.
 
tonyw said:
I'd highly advise picking up some renter's insurance. I got mine through AOPA and it runs me $312 for a million bucks in liability coverage and $5,000 in aircraft damage coverage. And I will get a ten percent discount for not bending any metal over the past year. So I'm paying less than a buck a day for coverage to cover my ass just in case. I think it's worth every penny.

Why the $5,000? Because that's the deductible on the club's insurance policy, and then their policy kicks in. So I only wanted to cover that amount of damage.
Click to expand...

That's 312 every 6 months right...?
 
.... Hmmm I went through AOPA and got renter insurance from AIG and I have to pay every 6 months and it's like 300+ for 6 months.
 
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet: How should the cost of insurance and number of flight hours per year be balanced?

Say you pay $300/year for insurance. If you're training, flying cross countries, etc. you could fly 200 hours in a year. That makes the insurance cost $1.50/hour which by almost any standard is well worth it. However, if you only fly around the pattern once a month, you might only fly 10 hours in a year, making the insurance cost $30/hour. Personally, I'd rather take my chances during those 10 hours rather than drop all that money into insurance. I mean, for $30/hour you might as well pay a CFI to ride along with you and get some pointers on your flying out of the deal.

What do you all think?
 
tonyw said:
I'd highly advise picking up some renter's insurance. I got mine through AOPA and it runs me $312 for a million bucks in liability coverage and $5,000 in aircraft damage coverage. And I will get a ten percent discount for not bending any metal over the past year. So I'm paying less than a buck a day for coverage to cover my ass just in case. I think it's worth every penny.

Why the $5,000? Because that's the deductible on the club's insurance policy, and then their policy kicks in. So I only wanted to cover that amount of damage.
Click to expand...

But doesn't this still leave you open for subrogation? If you only cover the deductable, you may still be liable for the hull and the lost income.
 
bob loblaw said:
But doesn't this still leave you open for subrogation? If you only cover the deductable, you may still be liable for the hull and the lost income.
Click to expand...

Nope. The club's policy will pick it up from there. And since it is a flying club, it's not going to worry about lost income, they'll take the payout and buy a new plane.
 
tonyw said:
Nope. The club's policy will pick it up from there. And since it is a flying club, it's not going to worry about lost income, they'll take the payout and buy a new plane.
Click to expand...
Does the club's policy have a clause that excludes subrogation against members beyond the deductible?

The important points about all this is that (1) insurance policies for clubs and FBOs differ - a lot; and (2) unless someone who knows what he is reading looks at the policy, you cannot be sure what you have.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Does the club's policy have a clause that excludes subrogation against members beyond the deductible?
Click to expand...

The policy is for the club, not me, and it covers club members if we bend metal. We've had five incidents in the past 20 years, and in each case, the member was responsible for the deductible only.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top