Regional VS. Freight for a Resume?

[bucksmith]

So here's one for you guys...i'm sure a lot of sub- 135 mins pilots like myself are wondering what direction we should take our careers once we reach these magical numbers so as to best position ourselves for that holy grail job...so whats more powerful, piston PIC or turbine SIC? all weather, min. equip., ice laden apps to mins, or raising the gear and making cabin annoucements from IAD to EWR and back 4 times a week? i'll throw the same post on the freight threads and see what y'all think...thanks for the gouge!

 

[Easton14]

In this economy, I'd take whatever I could get to keep padding that logbook with any kind of time unless some dream job comes along. I'd worry more about direction I'd like to steer my career once everyone starts hiring again. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Alchemy]

So here's one for you guys...i'm sure a lot of sub- 135 mins pilots like myself are wondering what direction we should take our careers once we reach these magical numbers so as to best position ourselves for that holy grail job...so whats more powerful, piston PIC or turbine SIC? all weather, min. equip., ice laden apps to mins, or raising the gear and making cabin annoucements from IAD to EWR and back 4 times a week? i'll throw the same post on the freight threads and see what y'all think...thanks for the gouge!

Doesn't matter. Everyone and their pet gerbil will have >4000 total and 1000 turbine PIC at the end of this downturn. I'd guess there are at least 20,000 pilots with those qualifications who will be looking for about 5,000 of the "good jobs" by 2012. What sets you apart is who you know. In my experience knowing one or two key contacts at your airline of choice is really the only mandatory thing with a few exceptions. Sometimes just knowing those people can get you hired at a "dream job" with barely 135 flight time mins. At continental for instance, you could be a boeing test pilot who'd been furloughed from pan am with some astronaut time and usually still have no prayer with out at least a few recomendations from current pilots/management. The story seemed to be similair at FedEx, United, USAirways, Delta, Alaska and AirTran when they were hiring. Northwest on the other hand would actually hire based on qualifications, and those were total time, 121 experience, an ATP and turbine PIC. Southwest and UPS would hire based on experience and type ratings for their equipment.

If your goal is 121, I will say 121 experience is better than 135 experience in most cases, although having both is probably better than having just one. Turbine SIC is better than piston PIC. Piston PIC will count toward your total time on an application but not much else. Good luck, and I know you're kidding with the PA and gear comment but if you do get in, take it seriously. A lot of people wash out of training because of those attitudes, and I know some ex-135 single pilot types that did wash out of 121 regional training. I'm sure you'll be fine though, and the advice to take the first good opportunity that comes your way is sound.

 

[skydog]

So here's one for you guys...i'm sure a lot of sub- 135 mins pilots like myself are wondering what direction we should take our careers once we reach these magical numbers so as to best position ourselves for that holy grail job...so whats more powerful, piston PIC or turbine SIC? all weather, min. equip., ice laden apps to mins, or raising the gear and making cabin annoucements from IAD to EWR and back 4 times a week? i'll throw the same post on the freight threads and see what y'all think...thanks for the gouge!

The first question is: What is your "Holy Grail" job?

 

[flyguydaniel]

I think it all depends on where you want to go with you 121/135 experience. If it's a smaller flight operation one place might value 135 freight experience over everything else, one might value 121 experience more, one might value Alaska experience etc. etc. However, like Alchemy said, knowing someone is the best way to get your resume on top of the stack.

 

[ppragman]

If everyone has 5000TT and 1000TPIC, you need a way to stand out of the crowd, something cool and interesting, that's the only way. "Ohh, this guy flew DC-3s in the Bahamas? I bet he's got some stories." or "Hey, he left flying for a few years to do AIDS work in Africa? That's pretty cool." Because really, if you've been doing the Regional X, or Regional Y for 4 years, 3 as an FO and 1 as a captain, what kind of variation do you have from all the others out there? Nothing. Get a glider rating, compete in an aerobatics competition, find a different hobby. Follow the road less travelled and have some adventure. If you've got a family that can be complicated, so you might have to think outside the box, to make it work, but remember, your dream job may be a little less dreamy than you think, because at the end of the day work is a four letter word.

Listen, while I'm talking about this, I've noticed something, I see a lot of guys out there that seem to think,"If I could just get a job at place A," or "if I could just find out how I could get on with Airline B then all my problems would be solved." Look, I was one of these guys for awhile, its taken me too long figure it out, but no job, no movement or progression in aviation will make you happier. You may have a better job with better hours and more time off, but really, the only thing that will make your life better is you. It is what you make of it. A job may be more or less boring, more or less dangerous, pay more or less, but at the end of the day, you are who you are, and you can be miserable at the best job in the world if you let yourself be. None of your problems will be solved by working someplace, that's just bread on the table. What will really make you happy is finding meaning in your work.

 

[kellwolf]

Actually, better pay and more time off with my family IS the goal, so yeah. That would make my life better.

 

[ppragman]

Actually, better pay and more time off with my family IS the goal, so yeah. That would make my life better.

Ehh, a job helps because the environment you are in is better, but really, its all on your shoulders nad noone can solve your problems for you

 

[bucksmith]

some great stuff here, if my father we alive he'd be saying some similiar stuff... alchemy i WAS kidding but the FOD was there to make the joke so you're warning is still good to keep in my(our) mind...thanks...ppragman's comment made me realize my post might not of accurately portrayed me... i am having the time of my life and one of the reasons i'm in this is because unlike alot of carreer paths,(i left 8yrs. of electronics behind) aviations journey to the "holy grail" job is half the excitement, i'm looking forward to every rung of the ladder and as long as i can keep diapers on my kids' ass and some pb&j in our belly, you'll never hear me complain...so lets see here, holy grail job?? my dad flew gulfstreams before he lost his medical, and all his buddys that came around were corp. guys, so the influence leads me there..guess netjets could qualify as a holy grail job for me...

 

[bucksmith]

If everyone has 5000TT and 1000TPIC, you need a way to stand out of the crowd, something cool and interesting, that's the only way. "Ohh, this guy flew DC-3s in the Bahamas? I bet he's got some stories." or "Hey, he left flying for a few years to do AIDS work in Africa? That's pretty cool." Because really, if you've been doing the Regional X, or Regional Y for 4 years, 3 as an FO and 1 as a captain, what kind of variation do you have from all the others out there? Nothing. Get a glider rating, compete in an aerobatics competition, find a different hobby. Follow the road less travelled and have some adventure. If you've got a family that can be complicated, so you might have to think outside the box, to make it work, but remember, your dream job may be a little less dreamy than you think, because at the end of the day work is a four letter word.

Listen, while I'm talking about this, I've noticed something, I see a lot of guys out there that seem to think,"If I could just get a job at place A," or "if I could just find out how I could get on with Airline B then all my problems would be solved." Look, I was one of these guys for awhile, its taken me too long figure it out, but no job, no movement or progression in aviation will make you happier. You may have a better job with better hours and more time off, but really, the only thing that will make your life better is you. It is what you make of it. A job may be more or less boring, more or less dangerous, pay more or less, but at the end of the day, you are who you are, and you can be miserable at the best job in the world if you let yourself be. None of your problems will be solved by working someplace, that's just bread on the table. What will really make you happy is finding meaning in your work.

i hope many have read your answer here, its important to remember...i think one of the greatest things about aviation, is that for the most part, we are surrounded by a bunch of people that love what we do...everybody complains about alot of different things but in the end, when those wheels leave the ground, we all return home, we all love to escape the "surly bond" and we are all little saddened when the day is over...and if you can find a paycheck in the middle of all that, then i guess that is the true "holy grail" ...

 

[skydog]

If corporate is your goal, I guess my advice would be that regional turbine SIC eventually turns into regional turbine PIC, whereas Freight piston PIC is always going to be Freight piston PIC.

I think in the corporate world, knowing people is half the battle. I also firmly believe that a diverse resume is what you gets you noticed. As another poster said, everybody has 4000 hours and 1000 turbine PIC. So what is on your resume that will set you apart? Were you a Chief Pilot or Chief Flight Instructor somewhere? Did you volunteer to be a young eagles mentor? Do yo something out of aviation that is unique and interesting?

 

[PICPaul]

None of your problems will be solved by working someplace, that's just bread on the table. What will really make you happy is finding meaning in your work.

Wish I would have been that wise and had that insight when I was your age.

 

[Boris Badenov]

In my extremely anecdotal and unscientific experience, freight guys tend to wind up flying corporate and regional guys wind up flying 121. Obviously, there's plenty of crossover, but I'd estimate that about 75% of the freight guys I know who have "moved up" have done so to a gulfstream or citation. The converse is that 121 operations tend to look more favorably on people with 121 experience. This is not without reason...the strict adherence to procedure you learn at a 121 doesn't always transfer well to 135/91 flying where the flight crew is often in the position of needing to "get it done", and the "get it done" attitude doesn't always transfer well to a vast operation with various departments/fiefdoms and books of SOPs that could be classified as a dangerous weapon by weight alone.

 

[jtrain609]

In my extremely anecdotal and unscientific experience, freight guys tend to wind up flying corporate and regional guys wind up flying 121. Obviously, there's plenty of crossover, but I'd estimate that about 75% of the freight guys I know who have "moved up" have done so to a gulfstream or citation. The converse is that 121 operations tend to look more favorably on people with 121 experience. This is not without reason...the strict adherence to procedure you learn at a 121 doesn't always transfer well to 135/91 flying where the flight crew is often in the position of needing to "get it done", and the "get it done" attitude doesn't always transfer well to a vast operation with various departments/fiefdoms and books of SOPs that could be classified as a dangerous weapon by weight alone.

While I think your numbers are accurate, in that most freight drivers move into the corporate/fractional/charter world, and that most regional pukes move into larger regional jets that look resemble guppies with a bad sun burn, depending on the 135 operating the ops can be just as complex.

I found very little difference, operations wise, when transitioning from Amflight to Express. Both companies had an ops specs manual that was so large you could assault a hooker with it pretty well, both companies had fairly similar MX logs, both companies required a dispatch to depart, blah blah blah. Now Amflight might be the exception instead of the rule, but I found very little difference in the day to day operations between Amflight and Express. That might also be because Amflight is the largest part 135 company in the country, and had almost as many planes as Express did and actually had to keep tabs on what they were doing.

 

[Goonie]

If corporate is your goal, I guess my advice would be that regional turbine SIC eventually turns into regional turbine PIC, whereas Freight piston PIC is always going to be Freight piston PIC.

I think in the corporate world, knowing people is half the battle. I also firmly believe that a diverse resume is what you gets you noticed. As another poster said, everybody has 4000 hours and 1000 turbine PIC. So what is on your resume that will set you apart? Were you a Chief Pilot or Chief Flight Instructor somewhere? Did you volunteer to be a young eagles mentor? Do yo something out of aviation that is unique and interesting?

Remember in corporate its all about customer service! That is whats going to set you apart from the rest.

If one guy has 20,000 hours and 20 years of airline flying and the other guy has 3,000 hours and used to be a hotel manger, guess who is more qualified?

Corporate outfits USUALLY tend to shy away from airline pilots because they dont have the customer service experience.

Oh, and I'll second what others had said....its ALL about who you know in the corporate world.

 

[bucksmith]

thanks boris, that is a very insightful insight...
i'm drawn to the quick turbine time, but would probably enjoy the "lifestyle" of freight...but i would like to end up in a gulfstream instead of a 737...so we'll see, it really is likely i'll take the whatever is available when i have the hours, but it is still wise and enjoyable to spectulate, plan and dream...how bout 8 years of bartending full and part time for customer service? thats going on my resume now cause of this thread! thanks all, keep it coming, love the site... an hour on this site is like a week sitting around the FBO (truth, bullcrap, good advice, bad advice...and the same need to weigh it all smartly)

 

[Flight81]

The first question is: What is your "Holy Grail" job?

I think tou have to answer this question first. Everyone has a different holy grail. That would determine what and where you need to fly. My holy grail is flying the Dash-8 for Horizon out of SEA.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Remember in corporate its all about customer service! That is whats going to set you apart from the rest.

If one guy has 20,000 hours and 20 years of airline flying and the other guy has 3,000 hours and used to be a hotel manger, guess who is more qualified?

Corporate outfits USUALLY tend to shy away from airline pilots because they dont have the customer service experience.

Oh, and I'll second what others had said....its ALL about who you know in the corporate world.

Are you basing this on personal experience or on "what you've heard"?

The reason i'm asking is because I have the unique perspective of having spent 12 years in the airlines and currently working for a part 91 flight department.

In our department about 30% of the pilots are former airline (split almost 50/50 between ex-regional and ex-major). As a matter of fact, we just hired 3 who are starting IOE this week and ALL 3 were former airline. (1 CRJ Captain, 1 ERJ F/O, and 1 B717 F/O).

I could be wrong, but I also believe that only 1 of the 3 knew someone in the department who wrote a letter of recommendation on their behalf. They were hand picked after a rigorous interview process that started with 860 resumes.