Regional Airlines Lower Bar for Pilots

wheelsup said:
Not many of the mainline pilots can walk away and make $100k-$200k/yr at a comparable job. That's why so many voted for concessions after 9/11. Let's put ourselves in their shoes, I really can not blame them.

Heck for me to walk away as a regional FO, it would be hard to replace that income with my current level of education and experience. Most would probably be in that situation too.
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Reason number 8,209,092 to not major in aviation. I could be in law school in a year and in the mean time paying the bills being a server admin.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Maybe only a few have "fallen," but there have been 3100 ASR reports filed in the last 5 years involving CRJ/ERJ crews. Interesting reading.
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I've been reading those reporst, and maybe I haven't read the exact ones you have, but all I really get out of them is the "normal" clearance/airspeed snafu's and the occaisionl incorrect MEL procedure, etc. I guess I am not seeing the drastic jump in dangerous incidents that are a direct result of lower time guys in the cockpit. That being said, it very well may be happening and I just haven't seen the reports.
 
Dugie8 said:
I've been reading those reports, ....I just haven't seen the reports.
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And you probably won't see them. It's not something the airlines are going to volunteer. Most things are "covered" by their Captains, or did not bend enough metal to classify as an "accident." Most "snafus" are going to be invisible to the general public. To believe that nothing is happening because it hasn't made it to "print" is just plain naive. There are several Regional Captains on this site that have corroborated the snafus and I have spoken to many others myself.
 
Ok, I can buy that. However, you did make it sound as though there were a bunch of "OH MY GOD" in those 3100+ reports. Like I said, I haven't read every single one, but I have read a lot of them.


I wouldn't be too quick to jump on a captains coat tails either about SNAFUs and such. If the problem was as big as everyone is making it out to be, there would be much, much more outcry, at least I would hope these captains, line check captains, IOE captains, training etc would be making the appropriate stink.

I hear just as much "stupidity" on the radio(s) from SWA, UAL, etc as I do from the Mesa, Mesaba, Chataujka;jd;fa, and so on. I, like you, have heard the horror stories too from friends that came from Mesa, or PNCL, but they are more about the personalities and quirkiness of the individual than they are about true safety issues, ie almost crashing, can't fly the airplane and so on.

In my mind, I want to chalk a lot of this up to disgruntled individuals who, by no fault of their own or maybe by some fault of their own, didn't have the oppurtunities that some people are having today. Instead of mentoring and helping they piss and moan and try to make mountains out of mole hills.

No written record of near death situations may not be indicative of there being no problem, but old crusty piss and moaning doesn't mean there is one either, it is more likely somewhere in the middle, about where it will probably always be. I will however be the first to eat my words on that.
 
PCL_128 said:
I disagree. ALPA's polling over the past two years has indicated something unexpected: the young, newest generation of airline pilots is the most militant that the Association has seen in decades. The ultra-militant proposal that the APA made last month to AMR with 50% payraise demands is only the beginning. Over the next decade, we're going to see the same thing at many other carriers. The younger pilots aren't willing to sell their souls for job security as the last generation of mainline pilots have. I predict a series of bar-raising contracts during the next period of pattern bargaining, beginning with the CAL contract.
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DAMNED SKIPPY!

Ref: My ALPA thread I wrote a few weeks ago...

Once I get out of IOE at the end of the month, I'd like to start planning a think-tank/symposium on getting these militant youngsters like myself organized.

Thoughts?
 
PCL_128 said:
I'll be happy to help in any way that I can.
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Good.. you're enlisted.

Seggy had suggested we hash something up and present it to ALPA sometime when they'd be done dealing with US Airways business, etc.

I'd originally suggested Doug as a facilitator, as he's already known and central to us all. He however, is busy as ever, so I'm gonna take the ball and run with it.

I'll be in touch with everybody via the site to arrange something once I actually find a place to have my mail arrive here in Dallas.
 
jtrain609 said:
Reason number 8,209,092 to not major in aviation. I could be in law school in a year and in the mean time paying the bills being a server admin.
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Wammy!

The joys of having other certifications. . .and having experience in multiple fields.

MCSE, A+, CCNA is my computer experience, along with my past four years military meteorology experience, coupled with a soon BS in Poli Sci.

Law school does look good in the future if it comes down to it. But one career change is all I'm comfortable making right now. :)
 
Firebird2XC said:
Good.. you're enlisted.

Seggy had suggested we hash something up and present it to ALPA sometime when they'd be done dealing with US Airways business, etc.
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Definitely the smart play. The AAA fiasco is taking up a tremendous amount of Association resources right now, but that should be over within a few months.

What do you think Seggy? Can you put up with working with me again? :D
 
Seggy said:
Of course :).

I am still burnt out from our union drive though. Once the new year comes around then we should start working to raise that bar.
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I need a project and have a hankerin' to cause a ruckus, so I'd be happy to be the organizational pivot point for the whole deal.

... May need to lean on a few of you guys that have done this sorta thing before, but I'm otherwise fine with doing the heavy lifting, organizational wise...
 
Kingairer said:
Does that mean i have no expereince since im young and work at a regional. even though ive worked there for 4+ years? I must be one of those 250TT guys.
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Well, everyone knows that being young, inexperienced, and less safe go hand in hand (...in hand?)
 
jtrain609 said:
Reason number 8,209,092 to not major in aviation. I could be in law school in a year and in the mean time paying the bills being a server admin.
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Erm, what does working as a server admin have to do with a degree in philosophy? :) I see the law school tangent, but I still say major in something you're gonna finish. In your case, philosophy worked great. For me, I woulda shot myself in the face trying to finish that degree.

Then again, I work at PCL as an FO. I could walk away tomorrow and replace my income as a night manager at Taco Bell.....

Now, as for wages falling in the future, ALPA's gonna have to agree to that. I doubt that will happen post-bankruptcy. I know our MEC was pressured to send a sub-standard contract to the pilots for a vote "just to see," and they told management to take a hike. If the negotiating committee never sends the contract to the pilot group, management CAN'T lower wages. Now, wages that don't keep up with inflation, I'd buy. Then again, we're already seeing that in almost every other job category as it is....especially with the dollar getting weaker by the day.
 
kellwolf said:
Erm, what does working as a server admin have to do with a degree in philosophy? :) I see the law school tangent, but I still say major in something you're gonna finish. In your case, philosophy worked great. For me, I woulda shot myself in the face trying to finish that degree.

Then again, I work at PCL as an FO. I could walk away tomorrow and replace my income as a night manager at Taco Bell.....
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It doesn't have anything to do with being a server admin; it has to do with being able to get into and then make it through law school.
 
what about doctors fresh out of med school doing their residency, performing surgeries under experienced doctor supervision? nobody complains about those people...

a new pilot isn't much diff. he is doing what he is supposed to do under superior supervision
 
taseal said:
what about doctors fresh out of med school doing their residency, performing surgeries under experienced doctor supervision? nobody complains about those people...

a new pilot isn't much diff. he is doing what he is supposed to do under superior supervision
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"The HealthGrades study shows that the IOM report may have underestimated the number of deaths due to medical errors, and, moreover, that there is little evidence that patient safety has improved in the last five years," said Dr. Samantha Collier, HealthGrades' vice president of medical affairs. "The equivalent of 390 jumbo jets full of people are dying each year due to likely preventable, in-hospital medical errors, making this one of the leading killers in the U.S."


USA airline deaths 2006 - 49 people
USA airline deaths 2007 - 0
 
With the whole "not giving a bleep". It wouldn't be the end of the world if someone quit at a regional. There are other flying gigs out there other than flying for a regional....even 135 cargo for that matter. We have guys on here that are doing well and are not flying at a regional or 135 cargo. JDE, Propilot, and etc... There are plenty of those jobs out there.


Something that I'm not worried about is finding another flying gig if I decide to up and leave the one that I have now.
 
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