Redbird G1000 TD???

subpilot

subpilot

Squawking 7600
Who has used this model and what are your opinions. I am considering getting one of these for my flight school and wanted to get some real world feedback before pulling the trigger.
 
I think it sucks. If you can spring it, the frasca is the way to go. Seeing that it has actual g1000 displays and not some homemade panel.
 
Yeah, I agree this is no Frasca but the cost of a Frasca is $60,000 vs $7,000 for the Redbird TD. Does this simulator get the job done and do instructors and students use it or is it such a piece of garbage that it just sits there idle? We would rent it out for around $35/hr and this is loggable toward training and instrument recency.
 
Have you used FSX on your computer because thats RedBird in a nut shell. Not the best, can be good for Instrument stuff.
 
My old flight school has it - supposedly the motion does nothing for it and is prone to breaking down. Don't know about the static one.
 
Murdoughnut said:
My old flight school has it - supposedly the motion does nothing for it and is prone to breaking down. Don't know about the static one.
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The Redbird TD is only a desktop Basic ATD that cost $7,000. You are refering to the GTX full-motion model that cost over $60,000. Totally different animal.
 
subpilot said:
Yeah, I agree this is no Frasca but the cost of a Frasca is $60,000 vs $7,000 for the Redbird TD. Does this simulator get the job done and do instructors and students use it or is it such a piece of garbage that it just sits there idle? We would rent it out for around $35/hr and this is loggable toward training and instrument recency.
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Wow, I had no idea the price difference. In that case it's hard to say. The redbird we used was glitchy, the knobs don't feel correct, the buttons wouldn't work. It wasn't current g1000 firmware, a lot of g1000 functionality was missing, approaches wouldn't load or sequence.

That was the bad. The good? The price was right and it DID work for basic attitude instrument training and basic g1000. But yea it's basically Microsoft FS.

The Frasca felt %100000 more advanced and had no flaws.

The redbird was a Basic ATD and the Frasca was an Advanced ATD (not motion) . The AATD will be used more in the long run since it counts for more hours toward the commercial.
 
After spending the weekend doing some research. I am leaning toward the Redbird TD analog configuration (6-pack and Garmin 540 GPS) and then getting a G1000 PC simulator on the side. The reason is because the Redbird G1000 does have some glitches and is not a pure simulation to the actual G1000 (too much negative transfer of knowledge). Another reason is becasue with more knobs and buttons comes the chance of more things breaking. It is hard for them to screw up imulating a 6 pack display plus the majority of pilots out there are still flying steam gauges who would most likely pass on using a G1000 simulator for currency.
 
Sorry for the sidebar, but instead of sending me caps and bags, why doesn't AOPA throw one of these in a trailer, and haul it around to high schools and events to drum up some interest in flying?
 
I've never really bought into the whole simulator training thing, especially as expensive as some of them are. I get that you can simulate certain situations that you can't in the plane, but at the same time I think time in the airplane itself is far more valuable. Personally, I don't like to teach in them, and I haven't really had any students that were all that interested in them, absent someone really trying to "sell" them the simulator route.
 
Bradg33 said:
I've never really bought into the whole simulator training thing, especially as expensive as some of them are. I get that you can simulate certain situations that you can't in the plane, but at the same time I think time in the airplane itself is far more valuable. Personally, I don't like to teach in them, and I haven't really had any students that were all that interested in them, absent someone really trying to "sell" them the simulator route.
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I found it pretty valuable for learning approaches and basic IFR navigation.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I found it pretty valuable for learning approaches and basic IFR navigation.
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I've done some IFR stuff in sims and didn't find it worthless, but I just never found it to be quite as good as being in the airplane. To the extent the student is willing to pay for it, I would much rather go out and fly the plane. Of course, to each his own, but I tend to guide students toward the airplane itself.
 
Bradg33 said:
I've done some IFR stuff in sims and didn't find it worthless, but I just never found it to be quite as good as being in the airplane. To the extent the student is willing to pay for it, I would much rather go out and fly the plane. Of course, to each his own, but I tend to guide students toward the airplane itself.
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The value in the sim is laying the foundation of good IFR skills with out the stress of the cockpit IMO. Think about the ability of being able to pause or rewind an approach or hold so you can discuss it with your CFI. I do think some places use them to much but 10hrs in the sim when you start instrument training is well worth it if the sim is priced right.
 
Rotor2Wing said:
The value in the sim is laying the foundation of good IFR skills with out the stress of the cockpit IMO. Think about the ability of being able to pause or rewind an approach or hold so you can discuss it with your CFI. I do think some places use them to much but 10hrs in the sim when you start instrument training is well worth it if the sim is priced right.
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Maybe I just have yet to come across one that I felt was "priced right." I also think there is something to be said for learning in the stressful environment of the cockpit. Of course, some people will probably learn better in the sim, others not. I'm the kind of people who would rather be thrown straight into the deep end rather than tippy-toeing in from the shallow side. I like to think I've been pretty effective at teaching that way, too. Fortunately, I'm not so arrogant as to believe my way is the only way that works, and I do recognize that the popularity of sims must mean that a fair portion of people find them at least somewhat useful. Just not my style, though.

I also think I get turned off a little because so many places over-use them. Maybe I'm just a little too "old school" (despite being young) in my "nothing beats being in the airplane" ways.
 
A simulator is a teaching tool. If used incorrectly then it will be useless, but if used correctly it can be a very valuable and effective learning aid. For me it is a procedures and navigation trainer. There is nothing better than turning on the autopilot (flying these things is negative transfer of learning) and just focusing on learning the basics of radio navigation or holding patterns. Learning these skills in the airplane with all the distractions and without the pause or flight analysis buttons is much more difficult and ineffective. The sim is the classroom... the airplane is the labratory.
 
I think as people continue to build simulators and they go from hydraulic motion to electric the prices on full-motion sims will come down. Redbird, for all the criticism that they've received, is at least in the vanguard of this movement. There are other companies as well. I think that to get some kind of motion sim (like Redbird) for the $60k or so is a neat deal (assuming it works, etc) and it has all kinds of practicality for training - even down to the private level. One of the most common answers to the lack of student-starts is "cost". I think at some point - not now but soon - you can incorporate sims to speed up the process of instruction without losing quality and also bend the cost-curve down. There are also other "markets" you can go into - pinch-hitter courses could be started and done primarily in a decent motion sim - that would be neat and the spouse might be more akin to take a pinch hitter course - cheaper and less stress in the beginning than doing it in the airplane (and...maybe he/she will like the course so much they decide to pursue a private?). I don't think the technology is "there" yet from what I've read - but there are myriad things you could do with a sub-$100k motion sim if you had a marketing mindset.
 
WacoFan said:
I think as people continue to build simulators and they go from hydraulic motion to electric the prices on full-motion sims will come down. Redbird, for all the criticism that they've received, is at least in the vanguard of this movement. There are other companies as well. I think that to get some kind of motion sim (like Redbird) for the $60k or so is a neat deal (assuming it works, etc) and it has all kinds of practicality for training - even down to the private level. One of the most common answers to the lack of student-starts is "cost". I think at some point - not now but soon - you can incorporate sims to speed up the process of instruction without losing quality and also bend the cost-curve down. There are also other "markets" you can go into - pinch-hitter courses could be started and done primarily in a decent motion sim - that would be neat and the spouse might be more akin to take a pinch hitter course - cheaper and less stress in the beginning than doing it in the airplane (and...maybe he/she will like the course so much they decide to pursue a private?). I don't think the technology is "there" yet from what I've read - but there are myriad things you could do with a sub-$100k motion sim if you had a marketing mindset.
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Not to mention the fact that the value of these sims grows as Avgas prices increase. Back when I was paying $50/h wet to fly my 172, I didn't see the value in paying $25 an hour for the PCATD. When I was all of a sudden paying $75 an hour, it became a lot more appealing.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Not to mention the fact that the value of these sims grows as Avgas prices increase. Back when I was paying $50/h wet to fly my 172, I didn't see the value in paying $25 an hour for the PCATD. When I was all of a sudden paying $75 an hour, it became a lot more appealing.
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It is an awesome hedge against fuel prices. It is also a marketing tool. I continue to see kids who solo after say 20 or 30 hours. This baffles me as I was sub-8 hours. The idea is that maybe you could be giving a brief "preview" in the sim, without burning gas, then go do the lesson more quickly. If you had a school that consistently got kids done in 40-45 hours it would be a great marketing edge I would think.
 
WacoFan said:
I think as people continue to build simulators and they go from hydraulic motion to electric the prices on full-motion sims will come down. Redbird, for all the criticism that they've received, is at least in the vanguard of this movement. There are other companies as well. I think that to get some kind of motion sim (like Redbird) for the $60k or so is a neat deal (assuming it works, etc) and it has all kinds of practicality for training - even down to the private level. One of the most common answers to the lack of student-starts is "cost". I think at some point - not now but soon - you can incorporate sims to speed up the process of instruction without losing quality and also bend the cost-curve down. There are also other "markets" you can go into - pinch-hitter courses could be started and done primarily in a decent motion sim - that would be neat and the spouse might be more akin to take a pinch hitter course - cheaper and less stress in the beginning than doing it in the airplane (and...maybe he/she will like the course so much they decide to pursue a private?). I don't think the technology is "there" yet from what I've read - but there are myriad things you could do with a sub-$100k motion sim if you had a marketing mindset.
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As fast as the tech market advances I can't wait to see what the GA sims look like in 5-10 years. Honestly even right now there are tech savy people building some pretty awesome home sims for under $10k. I also hope the availability of sims increases. I know I have searched all over ATL and the sims that are available are priced within 10-20% of what their airplanes are. That is just way to expensive.
 
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