Recommendations, a discussion

derg

derg

Apparently a "terse" writer
Staff member
I get A LOT of emails from people asking for letters of recommendation.

If I'm familiar with your character, have worked with you and willing my professional reputation on you, I'm more than happy to write a letter of recommendation.

Over the past week, a few of us have gotten LOR requests from people we really don't even know.

Try to get to know someone before you ask for a letter of recommendation. I will generally walk in the letter personally to pilot selection. If the manager asks, "How well do you know this person?" and my only answer is "Well, I don't. He just wrote me an email and I think I've seen him post a few times on the internet" that will color each and every recommendation I bring to HR with negative light.

One bad recommendation and HR really doesn't want to hear from you anymore for the most part.

But before shotgunning requests for letters out there, please make sure you're professionally or at least personally familiar with the person.
 
Remember, the guy you recommend is a reflection on you and your judgement of character, ability, etc.

Recommend a guy and he's a crapbag....either personally or performance wise; and you'll look bad. If you recommended someone knowing well he was a crapbag, thats bad. If you recommended someone not knowing him enough to know if he was a crapbag, then thats plain stupid. Either way, you end up looking like a crapbag too.
 
I'm happy to recommend anyone:

1. I've flown with.

2. I know personally.

3. Is Jesus/Buddha/Allah.

Otherwise, don't bother....


Kevin
 
MikeD said:
Remember, the guy you recommend is a reflection on you and your judgement of character, ability, etc.

Recommend a guy and he's a crapbag....either personally or performance wise; and you'll look bad. If you recommended someone knowing well he was a crapbag, thats bad. If you recommended someone not knowing him enough to know if he was a crapbag, then thats plain stupid. Either way, you end up looking like a crapbag too.
Click to expand...


We had this situation happen. Unfortunately a fellow senior captain went out on a limb for a pilot he hadn't met and knew VERY little about. This pilot ended up being a disaster and pretty much ruined it for other folks that have been recommended through that pilot. Sad.

I've walked in many a resume for my company, but at the very minimum, I'd like to get to know the person beyond a name and resume attachment. It looks a lot better when the CP doing the hiring asks, so how do you know this pilot?

My .02
 
I found out a couple weeks back that apparently my name was dropped in a cover letter of an incoming interviewee, at the company that I haven't even started working at yet. I was on the phone with HR for something about the upcoming training, and I was asked randomly about it, and if I knew who this person was, and what I know about them. I was caught totally off guard, don't know the person, or where they're from, and how they even know I'm going to work for a new company. I apologized to HR and she just said no worries, and that the names of a few of their current pilots were also dropped in their cover letter. I still haven't found out who it is, but once I go in for training I want to get to the bottom of it and at least figure out who they are and where they're from.

So lesson here, don't drop names at a company, hoping it'll get you hired, just because you may know the name of an upcoming or current employee.
 
Do you guys think it's a matter of pure desperation or a fundamental misunderstanding of what a letter of recommendation is?
 
DV8Pilot said:
Yeah, that.

This post needs to pinned to the top, I've gotten "cold called" lately too.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's just y.

Benevolent Dictator for Life said:
Do you guys think it's a matter of pure desperation or a fundamental misunderstanding of what a letter of recommendation is?
Click to expand...
Quite probably. I have quite a few from academia, and I wouldn't even think of asking for one from someone I haven't worked with before.
 
staplegun said:
I'm happy to recommend anyone:

1. I've flown with.

2. I know personally.

3. Is Jesus/Buddha/Allah.

Otherwise, don't bother....


Kevin
Click to expand...

What about Brahma? You have got to admit all those eyes and arms couldn't hurt ones pilot skills.

god-brahma.jpg
 
Best recommendation i've ever been given..."He shows up on time and does his work without complaint".
 
ok, sooo...what if we don't come across well on the interwebz?? And if we lurk most of the time without having much substance to add to the conversation and therefore never enter the conversations in the first place.

I'm just wondering because I am sure there are those out there who are just like me (maybe). Not much posting, an opinion or odd comment here and there, a few folks known in the aviation world but not enough to get help getting a job. I want a recommendation or a walk in, but the problem here is that I find it difficult and out of place to just fire off PM's asking for help to those on this board.

How would someone like me guage whether or not a request for help would help? Just curious.
 
Maddog1974 said:
ok, sooo...what if we don't come across well on the interwebz?? And if we lurk most of the time without having much substance to add to the conversation and therefore never enter the conversations in the first place.

I'm just wondering because I am sure there are those out there who are just like me (maybe). Not much posting, an opinion or odd comment here and there, a few folks known in the aviation world but not enough to get help getting a job. I want a recommendation or a walk in, but the problem here is that I find it difficult and out of place to just fire off PM's asking for help to those on this board.

How would someone like me guage whether or not a request for help would help? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Go to a meet and greet, meet some people, make connections. Here's an example:

At NJC this last year, somebody walked up to me and started a conversation with, "Hey, you're jtrain? You're an ass!" After nearly an hour of insulting/BSing with each other he says, "You know what I want to do? Fly freight." My response was, "Freight? You need to come meet my buddy Kelvin!" We, of course, found Kelvin hanging out with a bunch of other trashy freight drivers, introduced him to the rest of the guys from Amflight and the rest was in his hands.

The point? You've gotta get out there and meet people, be ready to fling insults, drink some beers and tell lies. Until you do that, and show that you're able to hang, nobody is going to be willing to take a chance you.Contrary to what we want to tell ourselves, moving upwards and onwards in this industry (really ANY industry) is directly tied to your ability to get along with people, not how well you fly the airplane. I'm sure that 99% of the people that post on here are competent pilots, and frankly I'm sure 99% of the people around here are awesome people to hang out with, but until you get out there and actually meet the folks from these parts, there's no way to know that they're not part of the 1% that you want nothing to do with.

Additional point? People know people. If you meet one person at NJC that you get along with, they're more than likely going to say, "Oh you've been trying to get on at Beagle? You need to meet my buddy over here!"

But until you're face to face with somebody either insulting their mother or doing blow of the back of a hooker, nobody will know if you're legit.
 
Maddog1974 said:
ok, sooo...what if we don't come across well on the interwebz?? And if we lurk most of the time without having much substance to add to the conversation and therefore never enter the conversations in the first place.

I'm just wondering because I am sure there are those out there who are just like me (maybe). Not much posting, an opinion or odd comment here and there, a few folks known in the aviation world but not enough to get help getting a job. I want a recommendation or a walk in, but the problem here is that I find it difficult and out of place to just fire off PM's asking for help to those on this board.

How would someone like me guage whether or not a request for help would help? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Get to a meet and greet. Hell, throw one. JC'ers are everywhere and it's as simple as "Hey! I'm in (town), I'm going to (venue) at (whenever), I'll be at the bar in a shirt that reads (something snarky)" and bam! :)

No one really comes across well on the internet. I'm a sarcastic ass online but a big foul-mouthed pussycat in person. Well, err... bad example, but think of JC like a single branch of a much larger social network. The alpha and the omega of this community isn't the forum, it's really people that get together in real life.

Don't be shy, talk about what you want to do with people are around you because you never know who you're talking to and you never know who they know.

Quick story before I go check on my ribs, but there was a user I saw at a career function that was getting furloughed. Later on he finally got around and said, "Hey, I really want to talk to (airline) about a job". Low and behold the chief pilot of that airline and I had made pretty 'fast friends' earlier and I could have easily introduced him to the guy who could have scheduled an interview for him on the spot. But he didn't start talking about his career aspirations until much later.

Communicate, get out there. Meet people in person. Get your name out there and talk about what you want to do.

The rule of thumb is that if a person couldn't give you a character reference, you may not want to ask them for a letter of recommendation because it's darned near the same thing. There are people that I would write a LOR for, but I'm already familiar with their character and qualities offline. Get to know some people!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top