Recent experience at Chicago PEPC on 5/19

queeno,
I have refrained from saying anything, and will continue to do so, but you have hit the nail on the head.

Just keep believing in the tooth fairy noobs
 
Queeno/ATLTRACON -

Let's cut to the chase here - do you or do you not want all of the interested applicants on this board to continue with the application process? CJ, your daughter is in the middle of the application process so I have to think that's not your intention. Queeno - you do nothing but run down interested individuals on this board, so I really have no idea what your objective is other than to disuade us from applying. Perhaps your just wanting to disuade those individuals who are sitting on the fence, so that only the most committed continue with the process. Good on you if that's the case.

As for whether or not management has good intentions, I'll say this. I was in the Air Force and know that a majority of the young airmen had no clue regarding the decision-making processes of the officers leading them. Sometimes, to those airmen, the decisions seemed unfair or inexplicable, but as an officer - I understood that every decision our commander made was reached with the best outcome in mind. Sometimes that meant greater hardship for the airmen under his charge, but he always had the best intentions.
 
Everyone has motives... Either the individuals use this board to vent their frustrations. Or they do it because with all the "newbies" crawling to get in the door, the FAA will believe there is no reason to negotiate a better salary structure because people will still flock even at the lower mark. Or they do it just to give individuals the heads up of what to expect. I assume it is a bit of all three. For what is it worth though, I enjoy every viewpoint as it gives a good perspective.
 
Well back to the original intent of the post...............I went through the PEPC yesterday and all went extremely well. I got down to the final part which was a tentative class date that started by saying all the basics class are getting full and it would probably be August before I set foot in the academy. Needless to say I was a little bummed about it.......but I kept talking and asking questions and wouldn't you know they have room for next weeks Basics class. They said they had to make sure and get a preliminary clearance for security and medical before I could go. I GOT THE CALL TODAY and I'm on my way next week to Basics. I FINALLY MADE IT TO OKC!!!!!!!!! You guys will make it just keep doing what your doing and keep faith that the system EVENTUALLY works.
 
SoonerATC said:
Queeno/ATLTRACON -

Let's Let'scut to the chase here - do you or do you not want all of the interested applicants on this board to continue with the application process don't care? CJ, your daughter is in the middle of the application process so I have to think that's not your intention. Queeno - you do nothing but run down interested individuals on this board, so I really have no idea what your objective is other than to disuade us from applying. Perhaps your just wanting to disuade those individuals who are sitting on the fence, so that only the most committed continue with the process. Good on you if that's the case.

As for whether or not management has good intentions, I'll say this. I was in the Air Force and know that a majority of the young airmen had no clue regarding the decision-making processes of the officers leading them. Sometimes, to those airmen, the decisions seemed unfair or inexplicable, but as an officer - I understood that every decision our commander made was reached with the best outcome in mind Just you wait. You'll be pulling your hair out with our upper manglement. Officers are carefully weeded out, for the most part, to make sure these individuals are good decision makers and it takes a long time to become an officer. The folks that are upper manglement/HQ are individuals that washed out of EVERY facility they were ever in/won a EEOC case/ and by all accounts were days from being fired. THESE are the folks you will be taking "orders" from. People who have never worked in a facility before making decisions about ATC safety that affect tens of thousands of transmissions a day. We have gone from a safety profession to one that cares ONLY about the bottom line of the airlines and upper manglement is in bed with EVERY airline.. Sometimes that meant greater hardship for the airmen under his charge, but he always had the best intentions.
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I could care one iota whether anyone bids/gets hired/gets certified. What upper manglement has taught me is one thing; I don't care what happens to anyone else, I only care what happens to me. Didn't used to be that way but that's what has been beaten into me. "Course I still don't believe anything they tell me, I ONLY CARE ABOUT SEPARATING AIRCRAFT FROM EACH OTHER.

BTW disuade has two S's.
 
SoonerATC said:
Queeno/ATLTRACON -

Let's cut to the chase here - do you or do you not want all of the interested applicants on this board to continue with the application process? CJ, your daughter is in the middle of the application process so I have to think that's not your intention. Queeno - you do nothing but run down interested individuals on this board, so I really have no idea what your objective is other than to disuade us from applying. Perhaps your just wanting to disuade those individuals who are sitting on the fence, so that only the most committed continue with the process. Good on you if that's the case.

As for whether or not management has good intentions, I'll say this. I was in the Air Force and know that a majority of the young airmen had no clue regarding the decision-making processes of the officers leading them. Sometimes, to those airmen, the decisions seemed unfair or inexplicable, but as an officer - I understood that every decision our commander made was reached with the best outcome in mind. Sometimes that meant greater hardship for the airmen under his charge, but he always had the best intentions.
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Perhaps it is good for those going into this profession to do so with their eyes wide open. The pictures presented by queeno and atltracon are accurate in their presentation of the current state of affairs in the FAA. I would not encourage anyone to pursue this career without fully understanding what they are getting into.

As to the intentions of management: there is indeed a strong disconnect between management and controllers. It is all about priorities. Controllers top priority is maintaining a safe national airspace system. Mangagement's top priority is maintaining plausible deniability if anything happens. Controllers make operational decisions. Management makes political decisions. Each thinks what they are doing is the most important. That is why the great divide will always be there.
 
While I agree people need to see both sides of an argument, it comes down to how each individual handles it. To me it is no different than working for any corporation in America ; people generally dislike management. Big shocker I know but as long as people don't bring down my workplace with their negativity they can feel free to hate on management all they want. Negativity breeds more negativity
 
We've once again hijacked the purpose of this particular thread, however I want all prospective controllers on this board to remember that there are always three sides to every story.

In this case, there's the side of the Union, the side of FAA Management, and somewhere in the middle you'll find the real truth to the current situation. Do not believe everything that you hear from the Union and do not believe everything you hear from the mouths of FAA Management. Listen to each side and determine your own opinion of the situation. The Union is going to rant and rave until the cows come home because that's what keeps the Senior Union leadership in office and that is what keeps Union membership strong. FAA Management is going to continue denying the situation is as bad as it is because they don't want the flying public fear getting on a plane to go see Grandma in Ocalala (plus they don't want to admit they are in a situation they can't control).

Point: Foster your own opinion and take everything you hear with a grain of salt, especially until you get hired and experience the situation first hand.
 
SoonerATC said:
Point: Foster your own opinion and take everything you hear with a grain of salt, especially until you get hired and experience the situation first hand.
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True enough statement, but don't say we didn't warn you. There is a reason that MANY CTI/OTS/VRA spend years trying to enter the FFAA, but then quit in disgust.
 
In the immortal words of Tim the Enchanter:

I warned you, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you knew it all, didn't
you? Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it? Well, it's always
the same. I always tell them--
img_2.jpg
 
Since dealing with the FAA is so unjust and miserable, could you veterans please point me to a career field that involves no personality conflicts or occasional injustices, and also pays well?

I'm not here to start fights, but some of you act like you're such victims. Some of us have families to support and aren't sure how to do that yet. It's not easy to find a job that pays this well, not to mention one in the aviation field which we love.

No matter what I choose to do, there will be frustrations, power-tripping managers, and unfairness. I can't change nor predict any of these circumstances, I can only control how I handle them.

You have it so good and all you do is complain. You blame the FAA, or blame something else, but this is life. Of course things aren't perfect, they never will be. If you're miserable, I suggest looking in the mirror for your explanation.
 
wanderingphoto.com said:
Since dealing with the FAA is so unjust and miserable, could you veterans please point me to a career field that involves no personality conflicts or occasional injustices, and also pays well?

I'm not here to start fights, but some of you act like you're such victims. Some of us have families to support and aren't sure how to do that yet. It's not easy to find a job that pays this well, not to mention one in the aviation field which we love.

No matter what I choose to do, there will be frustrations, power-tripping managers, and unfairness. I can't change nor predict any of these circumstances, I can only control how I handle them.

You have it so good and all you do is complain. You blame the FAA, or blame something else, but this is life. Of course things aren't perfect, they never will be. If you're miserable, I suggest looking in the mirror for your explanation.
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ok skippy well with your attitude you should by pass the whole ATC thing and go right in to mangement.good luck being a second class citizen.
 
SoonerATC said:
Queeno/ATLTRACON -

Let's cut to the chase here - do you or do you not want all of the interested applicants on this board to continue with the application process? CJ, your daughter is in the middle of the application process so I have to think that's not your intention. Queeno - you do nothing but run down interested individuals on this board, so I really have no idea what your objective is other than to disuade us from applying. Perhaps your just wanting to disuade those individuals who are sitting on the fence, so that only the most committed continue with the process. Good on you if that's the case.

As for whether or not management has good intentions, I'll say this. I was in the Air Force and know that a majority of the young airmen had no clue regarding the decision-making processes of the officers leading them. Sometimes, to those airmen, the decisions seemed unfair or inexplicable, but as an officer - I understood that every decision our commander made was reached with the best outcome in mind. Sometimes that meant greater hardship for the airmen under his charge, but he always had the best intentions.
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i have not run anyone down ,iam sorry the truth is getting in the way of your fantasy of what you may think ATC is all about.all you want to hear about how wonderful it is and have some mananger blow smoke up your butt, but in todays FFA it isnt.well see how great you think it is when AVO starts fineing controllers for errors oh yea thats what they are planing nubee.
 
wanderingphoto.com said:
Since dealing with the FAA is so unjust and miserable, could you veterans please point me to a career field that involves no personality conflicts or occasional injustices, and also pays well? Nothing legal comes to mind.

I'm not here to start fights, but some of you act like you're such victims. Some of us have families to support and aren't sure how to do that yet. It's not easy to find a job that pays this well, not to mention one in the aviation field which we love. It potentially pays well if you make it to the top. There are no guarantees.

No matter what I choose to do, there will be frustrations, power-tripping managers, and unfairness. I can't change nor predict any of these circumstances, I can only control how I handle them. You do have the right attitude for the field you are about to enter.

You have it so good and all you do is complain. You blame the FAA, or blame something else, but this is life. Of course things aren't perfect, they never will be. If you're miserable, I suggest looking in the mirror for your explanation.
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Those of us who complain, do so because we know what the job has been and can be, versus what it has now become. We are fighting to make the job what is once was so that you can enjoy the same benefits we have enjoyed through the years. We hope that your generation can reap the benefits of our current fight, because we will not be around long enough to do so.
 
chrisatc said:
Those of us who complain, do so because we know what the job has been and can be, versus what it has now become. We are fighting to make the job what is once was so that you can enjoy the same benefits we have enjoyed through the years. We hope that your generation can reap the benefits of our current fight, because we will not be around long enough to do so.
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That's what we're looking for as new applicants. You can show us what it once was without running us down like Queeno and his cohorts like to do. Be a leader and not someone we're going to despise when we get to our facility.
 
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