Ready Reserve, Hot Reserve, Involuntary Reserve?

Airdale

Airdale

Well-Known Member
When a company schedules a sit at a Major Airport, for just long enough that you don't get paid, yet they tell you that you're there in case they need you before you deadhead home - thats BS reserve.

13hr duty day - 5hr pay credit.

I love telling my wife that the reason I only see her 2-3 days a week is because I sit at airports for 3+ hours NOT getting PAID. I spend 4-5 days a week away from home to make $1200.

This industry is ridiculous, these Airlines are out of hand. I'm on duty for 13hrs and get paid the same as someone who works a 9-5. Yet my duty day consists of getting stuck at an airport and taking a nap on a dirty couch They should issue you a bottle pf lube during indoc with a lifetime supply.
 
Airdale said:
When a company schedules a sit at a Major Airport, for just long enough that you don't get paid, yet they tell you that you're there in case they need you before you deadhead home - thats BS reserve.

13hr duty day - 5hr pay credit.

I love telling my wife that the reason I only see her 2-3 days a week is because I sit at airports for 3+ hours NOT getting PAID. I spend 4-5 days a week away from home to make $1200.

This industry is ridiculous, these Airlines are out of hand. I'm on duty for 13hrs and get paid the same as someone who works a 9-5. Yet my duty day consists of getting stuck at an airport and taking a nap on a dirty couch They should issue you a bottle pf lube during indoc with a lifetime supply.
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Check it hoss.

I'm gonna be lucky to see my girl one day a week until I get a base transfer out west. 3 days a week would be beautiful.

We both knew this was part of the game. And to be honest with you maing, seeing your wife 3 days a week ain't bad! There are some cats out there that end up with MUCH worse.

Not saying your situation doesn't blow, 'cause it does, but we know this is part of the game right?
 
Captain_Bob said:
Not all airlines are like that... I promise.

Bob
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So I hear. They called my buddy exactly a week and half after he applied. I'm going on two weeks.

Everyone knows you need to do a little sacrificing in this career - but the BS keeps getting thicker around this place. When I tell my friends at other carriers, their advice is leave and leave quickly. I assume its not like this everywhere. If it is, I'm going to need a lot more motivation then just "flying airplanes" after a year. :rolleyes:

Turnin wrenches and drivin race cars is looking more and more appealing.
 
Airdale said:
So I hear. They called my buddy exactly a week and half after he applied. I'm going on two weeks.

Everyone knows you need to do a little sacrificing in this career - but the BS keeps getting thicker around this place. When I tell my friends at other carriers, their advice is leave and leave quickly. I assume its not like this everywhere. If it is, I'm going to need a lot more motivation then just "flying airplanes" after a year. :rolleyes:

Turnin wrenches and drivin race cars is looking more and more appealing.
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I sat hot reserve once or twice a week for almost 2 years. It sucked pretty bad, but I knew what I was getting into before I took the job. I feel your pain, but didn't you realize what it was going to be like before you started?
 
EDUC8-or said:
I sat hot reserve once or twice a week for almost 2 years. It sucked pretty bad, but I knew what I was getting into before I took the job. I feel your pain, but didn't you realize what it was going to be like before you started?
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There is a lot of information that you learn prior to taking a job, but there is a lot of things you learn while working the job. I knew all about Hot Reserve and Ready Reserve, but I had no idea that a company would basically place you on hot reserve with no pay by cheating their own policy. Hot reserve is paid after you eat 3 hours. Having a scheduled sit for exactly 3 hours is cheating their own system and wasting my time.

Granted, I enjoy a cup of coffee while watching the big airplanes take off and land in Boston, but at the same time my bills aren't paying themselves. I need every dollar I can get. We work our tails off here. I haven't had a duty day less then 10hrs in two months. If I worked 10 hrs at the auto garage, I'd bank some serious cash with the overtime.

And this is my schedule this whole month! A 3 1/2 hour sit before deadheading back to base with only a 4hr pay credit. We made a 5hr credit today because we had an extra leg added on in the morning. A few weeks ago, they had me deadhead to Boston and sit for almost 6 hours to fly one leg. Wow. You'd make more money working 6 hours at McDonalds. I know - its McDonalds, but isn't that ashame? I could manage a couple of burger flippers and make more money. Not that I want to go do that, but this industry is screwed up.

I know I know I'm just complaining, but really when you look at the big picture its absurd. I'm just blowing off some ranting steam. If I made $40k doing this, I wouldn't complain too much. At least I'd have some money to pay my bills and then buy the Wife a nice steak for putting up with me being away so much. Instead I come home, blow my whole paycheck on crashpad/commutting expenses and bills and treat the wife to a pack of fresh Ramen Noodles.
 
Airdale said:
I know I know I'm just complaining, but really when you look at the big picture its absurd. I'm just blowing off some ranting steam. :)
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Understandable. Don't make us break out the ATP-instructing and wood-flooring threads, y'hear? :)
 
killbilly said:
Understandable. Don't make us break out the ATP-instructing and wood-flooring threads, y'hear? :)
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Oh boy! :D No, those days sucked too! I will say my quality of life has somewhat increased from those days. At least I get paid to fly a Turbine powered aircraft around with pax. :) Heck thats the fun part! I just want money!! Money money money!!! :D

Here's an analogy - Becoming an Airline pilot is like walking into a candy store expecting to feast on hundreds of delicous pieces of candy - then finding out they're all sugar free. Sure you're in the candy store, and beats being in Bed Bath and Beyond - but the candy still tastes like crap. :)
 
Dave, yes there are some things that stink at our airline and there are some good things.

It is what it is. We tried to make it better but lost, so you can thank those that voted no.

There are people complaining at FEDEX, don't be the person that would be there and not happy, complaining about the company etc.

When you fly with me, no b!tching allowed. Life is to short to complain and whine.


PS-Hot Reserve is paid after four hours here.
 
Sounds like they're working the system, not cheating it. Here's a way the same management gets around our contract on the jet side of the operation.

So, we're limited to 8:59 minutes in 24 hours after a certain length RR overnight. We're also allowed to get a day room at the hotel for any sit scheduled more than 5 hours. So, what do they do? Have you on a RR overnight, then sit at the airport for 4:59 minutes to let the 24 hour time period roll over before they fly you two more legs. Totally legal, and unless we get trip rigs in the next contract, they'll continue to do it. What gets me is we just had ANOTHER CA vacancy go with ELEVEN unfilled slots in MSP. I don't see how they've got crews to sit around 5 hours anymore! Oh, and I personally know of at least another 4 CAs that left over last weekend.
 
I don't really like the sugar-free candy store analogy. You should know what kind of lifestyle you're undertaking 100% cold before you get in. Now that you're in the store and whining about the taste you're making yourself look like a little ninny. Suck it up or wrench.
 
Now, I think you should be allowed a certain amount of grousing. Yeah, we all know (or SHOULD know) what we get into. BUT, I don't think it's out of the question to complain when the company starts pulling crap that is barely (if THAT) within the contract. Heck, my company violates our contract on a daily basis, but I'm not about to just suck it up and say "Well, this is how it is."
 
Some would say you're whining airdale. . .and they don't like it.

But please, continue to vent. . .no more fluff works for the starry-eyed kiddies. :)

I hope it gets better for you though man, I really do.
 
Airdale said:
Here's an analogy - Becoming an Airline pilot is like walking into a candy store expecting to feast on hundreds of delicous pieces of candy - then finding out they're all sugar free. Sure you're in the candy store, and beats being in Bed Bath and Beyond - but the candy still tastes like crap. :)
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I think your analogy is flawed, but I get what you're saying. :)

Whenever I get like that about my house not selling and getting discouraged about it, this is what I tell myself:

"Okay, so it hasn't sold yet. But you get a nice tax break. You have a nice place to live. You can crank Bad Religion as loud as you want and vacuum the rugs naked while screaming the lyrics to 'Infected' so it ain't all bad. And you've got a garage to wrench on the car in, too. And a massive internet pipeline and enough telephony equipment to start your own phone company..."

Hey. Wait a sec...that's not a bad idea...

Anyway. This is my point. I change my attitude and life looks a little rosier. Every single time you set foot in that airplane, you're moving closer to your goals. Every single time.
 
If you're looking for money as a regional FO.... you're fooling yourself and just going to be dissapointed.

The schedule will get better... you need to look for flying time and the upgrade. Those are the keys to the next step.
 
ljg said:
I don't really like the sugar-free candy store analogy. You should know what kind of lifestyle you're undertaking 100% cold before you get in. Now that you're in the store and whining about the taste you're making yourself look like a little ninny. Suck it up or wrench.
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And see, your attitude is the kind that kills our industry. Just "suck it up". NO! When the hell are pilots going to wake up and put and end to this.

Do I love my job? You bet. I love flying and getting paid to do so. But at the same time, there are things that happen that are down right wrong. Managements continue to WALK all OVER pilot groups. Who has the balls to stick together and say enough is enough, because I'm the first one to stand on that side of the line.

You see my complaining isn't about having to work, its not about having to fly, its not about getting delays, and MX cancellations. That stuff COMES with the territory and I do suck it up. I don't complain when we're ground stopped in LGA. I don't whine when I get called on my reserve day to do a 4:30am REPO flight.

I complain when the company doesn't pay me for things that SHOULD be paid. I complain when the company intentionally does things to save a buck in THEIR pocket. I complain when the company has no consideration for how their actions will affect their pilots.

Its works like this my friend - I provide a service to my company as a pilot. I am entitled to be paid for the service I provide. Even if that means sitting on hot RESERVE, in UNIFORM, at an AIRPORT. I am still entitled to be paid for spending MY time, minutes from MY life, being held responsible to the company.

If I'm the only one that has a problem with that, or finds that above statement to be BS, then maybe I need to see a shrink.

The job - I love it. The work rules and the way management screws the pilots - I hate it. Go tell anyone in any other industry that some of us "Airline Pilots" wear the uniform 13hrs a day and only get paid for 5hrs. They'll think you're full of it. Its the sad honest truth - open your eyes.
 
Seggy said:
Life is to short to complain and whine.
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You're RIGHT Mark. Life is too short to complain and whine. But ya know what? Life is also too short to be wasting 6 hours of your life sitting in a crew room, away from your family, NOT getting PAID. Life is too short to sit back and get fleeced like the sheep we are in this business while management lines their pockets.

I'm passionate about my career and about this industry. I won't lay down and put my ass up in the air with a sign that says "Hey Management! I'm ready!".
 
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