Read back correct

ASpilot2be

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
At a lot of our locations we pick up our clearances through center on the ground. It seems like sometimes after reading back our clearance I never get "Read back correct". The same goes for approach clearances. Sometimes I get a "Thank you" or a "Roger".

What is the proper thing I should be hearing?
 
I'm not aware that Read back Correct was ever an appropriate response to an approach clearance read back. Sounds like a Canadian thing. Read back correct no longer appears in the .65 unless I'm missing it. Seems the onus is on the controller to ensure and correct an improper read back. I've used it from time to time for assurance on an RTR that the pilot and I are on the same page, and 99% on my clearances from the ground are hold for release. That phraseology doesn't seen to be required at the moment though.
 
Cool. Thanks. Clearance delivery always says it, so I wasnt sure if it was required or not. I still hear it from time to time though.
 
FSS says that to us all the time too, wether at the field or using an RCO elsewhere. But now that you mention it center seems to say "Rodger" occasionally. I just assumed it was because they were busy.
 
genot said:
I'm not aware that Read back Correct was ever an appropriate response to an approach clearance read back. Sounds like a Canadian thing. Read back correct no longer appears in the .65 unless I'm missing it. Seems the onus is on the controller to ensure and correct an improper read back. I've used it from time to time for assurance on an RTR that the pilot and I are on the same page, and 99% on my clearances from the ground are hold for release. That phraseology doesn't seen to be required at the moment though.
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Really? Man, I usually query when I don't hear it, but that may be because of my time in Alaska - when I don't here it I usually am worried I got something wrong.
 
ASpilot2be said:
At a lot of our locations we pick up our clearances through center on the ground. It seems like sometimes after reading back our clearance I never get "Read back correct". The same goes for approach clearances. Sometimes I get a "Thank you" or a "Roger".

What is the proper thing I should be hearing?
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If I am working final and I give you an approach clearance, I will never say anything else to you in response to you reading back your approach clearance because the only other thing I need to give you is possibly a speed and frequency change to the tower. If I'm giving you an IFR clearance, in the air or on the ground, and you read it back correctly, I'll say,"...read back correct." If you don't give me a complete read back, I usually just respond with "roger."
 
Weird, I just had to search through the .65 again to see. I was always taught that if the pilot reads back any part of a clearance, then you must make sure it is correct. It appears that we don't even need to acknowledge that, if correct, contrary to the multiple retired controllers who trained me. We always tell them 'read back correct' out of habit. Maybe it was in the .65 years ago, which is why it was taught a particular way? Someone who has been doing atc for a while can maybe help with that answer? I'm at a class D vfr tower if it makes any difference in a future response.
 
ajmezz said:
Weird, I just had to search through the .65 again to see. I was always taught that if the pilot reads back any part of a clearance, then you must make sure it is correct. It appears that we don't even need to acknowledge that, if correct, contrary to the multiple retired controllers who trained me. We always tell them 'read back correct' out of habit. Maybe it was in the .65 years ago, which is why it was taught a particular way? Someone who has been doing atc for a while can maybe help with that answer? I'm at a class D vfr tower if it makes any difference in a future response.
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The section regarding pilot acknowledgment/readback is in 2-4-3 and it DID just recently change, but not in a very significant way.

I've been in the agency for 6 years and the phrase "readback correct" has never been in that book during that time. I've always been taught, and always have, said those words in response to a pilot readback of an IFR clearance. But, I don't normally say it otherwise and I can't find any reason why we do it for IFR clearances either.

2-4-3 pertains to all ATC instructions. Do you always close every landing clearance with "readback correct," too? If so, why?

If everyone stopped saying it starting today, I bet pilots would think it was strange. But eventually we'd all get used to it.
 
I should clarify that my previous statement is only in regards to IFR clearances and flight following requests if center gives us a beacon code for them. We also have a flight school full of chinese students who barely speak english as it is, so it kind of helps them out as well.
 
With a few controllers I sometimes don't get a "read back correct." To me the deafening silence is just as good as "read back correct," because to me they would have hopefully corrected me if I said something wrong. Furthermore, if I read it back, but am not sure about a part, and they don't correct me I will ask to verify anyways to do my due diligence as the pilot.
 
FM_Weasel said:
The section regarding pilot acknowledgment/readback is in 2-4-3 and it DID just recently change, but not in a very significant way.

I've been in the agency for 6 years and the phrase "readback correct" has never been in that book during that time. I've always been taught, and always have, said those words in response to a pilot readback of an IFR clearance. But, I don't normally say it otherwise and I can't find any reason why we do it for IFR clearances either.

2-4-3 pertains to all ATC instructions. Do you always close every landing clearance with "readback correct," too? If so, why?

If everyone stopped saying it starting today, I bet pilots would think it was strange. But eventually we'd all get used to it.
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I always get an acknowledgement from the pilot, with a clearance, and correct any incorrect readbacks as that's my job. If I climb someone to 14,000 and they say 12,000. I'll respond,"...negative climb and maintain 12,000." If they respond correctly, then I'll move onto my next task without saying "readback correct."

If I'm reading an IFR clearance to a pilot and they respond back correctly, I'll say,"... readback correct." If you don't respond to the pilot reading back a clearance, then how do they know if you heard them and/or if what they received was correct? Closing the loop in my opinion, whether right or wrong, I'll keep doing it when issuing IFR clearances. Why I do it in this case and not others, I don't know, but that's the way I was taught.

To play devil's advocate, if it is so important to have a hold short instruction readback, why is there or should there be a difference to issuing an IFR clearance? Shouldn't they be able to say,"DAL123 wilco" to you telling them to hold short of 27L just like they can when acknowledging any other ATC instruction?

Plus, if "readback correct except change route to read..." is in the 7110.65, then how come "readback correct" is not?
 
Plus, if "readback correct except change route to read..." is in the 7110.65, then how come "readback correct" is not?
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Because "readback correct" is implied if you aren't going back to correct something they read back wrong.

I guess technically ATC should be the last person to speak regardless of the instruction, to make it more uniform.

"N12345 turn left heading 220"
"Left heading 220, N12345"
"N12345 readback correct"

All day. Every Day. Every instruction. Let's try it out.
 
FM_Weasel said:
Because "readback correct" is implied if you aren't going back to correct something they read back wrong.

I guess technically ATC should be the last person to speak regardless of the instruction, to make it more uniform.

"N12345 turn left heading 220"
"Left heading 220, N12345"
"N12345 readback correct"

All day. Every Day. Every instruction. Let's try it out.
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I'll try it out on Atlanta final tomorrow and let you know how it goes!
 
IFR clearances on the ground when the pilot reads back the clearance, I just reply with "readback correct" with no callsign usually. And I only say "readback correct" because if I don't, the pilot will come back and ask if I copied their readback. For IFR pickups in the air, I almost never say "readback correct" in any form. They're in constant contact with me and if they do something I don't expect, it's an easy fix.
 
FM_Weasel said:
"N12345 turn left heading 220"
"Left heading 220, N12345"
"N12345 readback correct"
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N12345 contact tower 119.1
N12345 contacting tower 119.1
N12345 readback correct

Yeah.....NOT

Talk about cumbersome. We correct you when you're wrong only, otherwise it'd be a frequency nightmare.
 
FM_Weasel said:
Because "readback correct" is implied if you aren't going back to correct something they read back wrong.

I guess technically ATC should be the last person to speak regardless of the instruction, to make it more uniform.

"N12345 turn left heading 220"
"Left heading 220, N12345"
"N12345 readback correct"

All day. Every Day. Every instruction. Let's try it out.
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That's what they do in Canada.

I usually always hear read back correct with an IFR clearance but I don't think I would expect to hear it ever with an approach clearance.
 
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